Carrying less weapons, all weapons equipped : V - Skyrim

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:47 am

I've been thinking about a scroll tube, where few scrolls can be quick slotted. Then a padded bag for potions, in backbag they could break. Shield, and all weapons should be visible on you, and you could choose where the scabbard are put: belt or back.

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:00 am

No, it wouldn't. It would be tedious. Characters in games have an inventory and encumbrance for a reason.

That's why I said "I think." I have a right for an opinion just as you have a right for yours.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:01 am

I actually think the comparison to Halo is pretty relevant up to a point. Prior to Halo, most games had very soft restrictions to weapons, and the idea of limiting the amount of weapons to two was thought to be a bad idea. But when Halo had it implemented correctly, it added a completely new dimension to the game, and now it's difficult to find a fps that doesn't restrict the amount of weapons. Of course, shooters aren't like TES games. One reason it worked for fps was that snipers and rocket launchers were the strong weapons with limited ammo and firing speed, because of which you needed a smaller weapon with more ammo and firing speed to take care of the little guys effectively. The only thing in TES that could come close to this is strong enchantments vs. normal weapons.

Still, if blunt and blade weapons will actually have different uses (Blunt effective vs. heavy armour and skeletons, blade effective vs. lightly armoured or not armoured opponents), it might actually get people to make strategic choices about their weapons. In the same way, having a big weapon and a backup weapon can also be a strategic choice. The big weapon might be destroyed by magic, or you might be disarmed, and then having a lightweight backup weapon can be useful. Limiting weapons should also go hand in hand with a more restrictive encumbrance system.

If all weapons are always equipped, it can also make daggers more useful. You'd clearly see it if someone is carrying any other weapon than a dagger, but daggers can actually be concealed.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:27 am

Many clipping issues this one sees...

It's not "do we think they can do it based on what we know", it's "they're a developer working on a new title on a new engine, if they can pull it off, do you want it/think it would be cool?". Seriously guys! Come on! If we keep saying we don't want things because we don't think devs can do it, when are games ever going to get better???

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:58 pm

*DOUBLE POST*

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:34 am

Sure, why not? It's not like I ever used any weapon but Umbra in Oblivion anyway.

As long as I can put the remainder in my saddle bags and on my wagon, that is.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:11 pm

You seem so set on just ignoring other people's preferences, and I truly can't understand why? Using your examples, not only I can ignore the quest marker, I can mod it out if I'm inclined to, nobody its stopping me. And since I'm sure there are people that do like it, my best suggestion to Bethesda would be a toggle, real simple and everyone is pleased don't you think? The fix is not to kill the feature, but to make it optional, so you don't end up inconveniencing people just because your are set on x or y gameplay mechanic. Same with fast travel? Why get rid of the system in Morrowind completely, when its not at odds with the one in Oblivion? Both can coexists and It makes for a better game... for everyone! But they ended up killing it, a mistake that I get to correct with mods, since there is no other alternative, which really svcks for the console crowd.

The only reason Bethesda implemented something like level scaling is to allow people to experience any area of the game at any moment they please, not to make the game any more or less difficult. Bandits in Daedric has nothing to do with difficulty, is simply a lazy job by by the developers who couldn't be bored to make the pertinent equipment lists more tailored to what and actual bandit would wear. In the end, all they managed is to make select and rare gear by canon standards seem like stuff people just had laying everywhere, because I doubt that all that gear stopped you from murdering them with ease.

You see, what's broken is the leveling system, the one which allow you to become a god and max every stat and skill, the one that truly makes late game a joke. There is no room for specialization, all characters end up the same at the end of the road.

The features you suggested, in my opinion, only push realism in the game, they don't address the real problems in the game, like level scaling and the broken leveling system, which do have an effect on difficulty. They are simply minor tweaks to make the game behave in a way that mirrors what you can do in reality, and like I mentioned before, nothing is stopping you from playing you in that way, should you choose to. You don't even need a mod! Don't want to carry more than 2 swords? So don't... Don't want to use more than 3 potions? You are more than welcome not to. Don't want to open your inventory? Who is forcing you to? On the other hand, your tweaks force me to play differently, by imposing a bunch of restrictions that i can do without.

I'd have no issue with any of your ideas if they were not forced on me, by way of a hardcoe mode or something like that, but since that's not what you are suggesting, I'm happy to object to them.

And about modding the changes you suggest out? Of course I could, if the Construction Set allowed for it. But what about the others not able to, like the console community?

your forgetting that you need to use the quest markers unlike in morrowind. in most quests they just say to to bruma and talk to person x and bam theres a big green arrow. what if you had never been to bruma? how do you get there? morrowind had a perfect system where you were given some directions there and you had to get there by yourself.

as for fast travel as was already mentioned if there were alternative means of transprotation such as wagons with unicorns or mage guild teleport travel, ignoring fast travel is fairly easy. the problem is that there is nothing else to use so you are forced to hoof it or give in and use fast travel.

quest marker mods are easy although mods that add directions come out later on. mods for travel options probably wont come out for several months at least. playing the game with the "easy" button on might be fine for some gamers but alot of us miss an actual challenge and some realism in our games.

unfortunately i have a hard time seeing some of this being incorporated into hardcoe mode simply cause that would mean extra work. new vegas hardcoe was easy to implement since it was just HTS rates and ammo weight. for disabling fast travel in a skyrim hardcoe they would have to built some sort of alternative in the game like silt striders for morrowind. while i would love to see that i doubt they would do that. they wouldnt do the limit on weapons thing simply cause they would have to make 2 seperate interfaces depending on what you were using.

as for people that play on consoles that is their own problem. i dont care about them and im sick of games being built around them as well. games should not be built around the lowest common denominator. for all the money people have spent on consoles between the extra cost of the games and the controllers and memory cards and a new console cause we just know how reliable the xbox was :glare: you end up spending enough money to get a decent gaming rig.

all these things are only annoying to people that essentially dont mind cheating in their games. if they come across a fire breathing dragon they pause their game take off their sneaky gear and put on their entire set of fire resistant armor and then take out a sword with +10 damage to dragons. oh look you just defeated the dragon with 3 strokes (gosh i wonder how that happened) and here comes a frost atronach......no problem ill just pause my game go take a quick potty break and come back and take off my fire resistant armor and put on my full set of ice resistant armor and use the hammer of flames and tada.........killed the frost atronach in one stroke. how this is fun, challenging or even remotely realistic is just beyond me.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:50 am

No, No.

This is the kind of thing you find a mod for.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:28 am

So, in all previous TES games you could carry as many weapons as you want. While I don't have anything against it, I think it would be more fun, if the characters could carry only a couple of weapons and all the weapons would be visible on the character in third-person (Something like in The Witcher). For example a character could have a longsword and a bow on his/her back, maybe a small axe on the belt and a dagger strapped to a boot or something. In my opinion this would be a bit more realistic AND our characters would definetly look more bad-ass.

While we're at it, maybe characters could have potions on their belt for quick access. And maybe it would be impossible to use other potions during the combat.

What do you think of these ideas?

Those are all great ideas........FOR THE WITCHER 2

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:26 am

While, the other option is just to crank up how much your Encumbrance effects you. As it is, it is way too easy to run around with 99/100 encumbrance.

I don't get how at 99/100 you move at half speed, and at 100.01/100 you cannot move. I want to see the percentage of you movement speed directly correlate to % encumbrance.

Also, sinking in water. Also, fatigue drain. If you want to carry 2 spare suits of armor to a fight, fine. But when you get there you will be panting.

This does so many things, like make Light Armor a rational choice. Run into a guy in full plate armor? Get him to chase you up that cliff. Even if he gets a swing or two in, he'll be ready to collapse.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:00 pm

To all the people saying "just ignore it":

Imagine if you will that there was an "I Win" button in your inventory at all times, and whenever you wanted to this "I Win" button would heal you up, buff you and knock your enemies health down by a lot. Could you honestly play the game with that option always nagging you? Just knowing that such an option exists is enough to break immersion and suspension of disbelief, as well as tempt players with weaker wills who would other wise just brave the content of the game without resorting to cheap options.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:31 am

[quote name='squeekers1234' timestamp='1292773610' post='16838834'
all these things are only annoying to people that essentially dont mind cheating in their games. if they come across a fire breathing dragon they pause their game take off their sneaky gear and put on their entire set of fire resistant armor and then take out a sword with +10 damage to dragons. oh look you just defeated the dragon with 3 strokes (gosh i wonder how that happened) and here comes a frost atronach......no problem ill just pause my game go take a quick potty break and come back and take off my fire resistant armor and put on my full set of ice resistant armor and use the hammer of flames and tada.........killed the frost atronach in one stroke. how this is fun, challenging or even remotely realistic is just beyond me.
[/quote]

Simply a game mechanic that is supported by the design of the game. Whats the point of having armor with different properties if you cannot use it at will because the game wont let you change it, as it was intended, to overcome a challenge that requires some kind of specialized protection. And sorry, don't see anything wrong with being able to pause the game to take care of something not game related, why should I not be able to? Also, how is killing dragons and atronachs in one stroke related to what we were talking about before, which was restrictions in weapon availability and armor swaps as well as potion usage? Sounds more like a balance issue, or maybe overpowered gear or leveling system?

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:57 am

Simply a game mechanic that is supported by the design of the game. Whats the point of having armor with different properties if you cannot use it at will because the game wont let you change it, as it was intended, to overcome a challenge that requires some kind of specialized protection. And sorry, don't see anything wrong with being able to pause the game to take care of something not game related, why should I not be able to? Also, how is killing dragons and atronachs in one stroke related to what we were talking about before, which was restrictions in weapon availability and armor swaps as well as potion usage? Sounds more like a balance issue, or maybe overpowered gear or leveling system?

If you know you're going to potentially be fighting fire breathing dragons then you should have donned your fire resistant armor before hand, there's is challenge in uncertainty.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:16 am

Instead of a belt for healing potions, how about just a belt; put whatever potions you want in it, but if you don't put a healing potion in it ~no healing in combat
(Only makes sense if their is a realtime inventory... In theory I like that, but in practice its usually no good, and prevents you from reading descriptions ~yet it could be done right and still be real time; I think.)

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:28 pm

I think a inventory more like deus ex 1 would be good. but u got a house or some sort or storage as well

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:31 am

To all the people saying "just ignore it":

Imagine if you will that there was an "I Win" button in your inventory at all times, and whenever you wanted to this "I Win" button would heal you up, buff you and knock your enemies health down by a lot. Could you honestly play the game with that option always nagging you? Just knowing that such an option exists is enough to break immersion and suspension of disbelief, as well as tempt players with weaker wills who would other wise just brave the content of the game without resorting to cheap options.

There is nothing like an I win button implemented in the game. There are systems that can be abused to make the game easier though, and tweaking those to make for a better game is all fine and well, as long as it doesn't involve arbitrary restrictions, in my opinion. Case in point, something like that system to use potions mentioned before, which was a very good idea. Its not arbitrary to me because it doesn't prevent me from using whatever potion I see fit according to the way I play the game, its simply a system to prevent me from spamming health potions. This measure, coupled with the limit on effects already in place would make for a good compromise, without restricting my access to the inventory or the potions I have currently available. I'm all for things like this. Something like the game preventing me from carrying extra weapons or gear, even though my encumbrance permits it, just because its not realistic in a real life situation feels forced to me. Simply stating my opinion.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:04 am

Absolutely not. I like games to be games not super realistic. I think the whole "hold two guns max" thing that almost every FPS uses now for example is just plain outright boring compared to the variety of older games where you could hold many weapons.

I vote a strong NO to this.

To all the people saying "just ignore it":

Imagine if you will that there was an "I Win" button in your inventory at all times, and whenever you wanted to this "I Win" button would heal you up, buff you and knock your enemies health down by a lot. Could you honestly play the game with that option always nagging you? Just knowing that such an option exists is enough to break immersion and suspension of disbelief, as well as tempt players with weaker wills who would other wise just brave the content of the game without resorting to cheap options.

YES

TIE Fighter for example and probably other games in that top notch space flight sim series have an Invulnerability option right in the menu at all times. It's called self control. Yes, I could and would ignore it.

Options are NEVER bad things. Don't worry about how others play the game either. That's none of your concern.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:46 pm

If you know you're going to potentially be fighting fire breathing dragons then you should have donned your fire resistant armor before hand, there's is challenge in uncertainty.

So we end up with the game telegraphing the incoming fight ahead of time, so I can properly gear up? Or I end up dead, since I'm ill equipped, even though in my inventory sits a potentially life saving piece of equipment, just because the game wont let me adjust to the challenge of the fight as needed, then proceed to reload and don the armor before the fight, already knowing what lies ahead. Just seems like being punished over something I had no control or way of knowing before hand.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:35 am

the challenge is that you have to actually go out and collect that fire resistant armor and dragon slaying weapon
if you EARN those items, you are entitled to use them when they're effective
it's not like they hand them out for entering the town or something

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:30 am

YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE OPINIONS THAT DIFFER FROM OURS *FROTH*

But seriously I see how many people wouldn't like this in a game when they've been playing the past TES games the same way, but if we're going to go with the "unrealistic and fun" option then I want to dual wield two gigantic claymores goddammit.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:50 am

this happens every time...

...people ALWAYS want to bring real life into TES!

look, this is an RPG... you ROLEPLAY!

if you only want your character to carry 2-3 weapons, then go ahead, LIMIT your character! carry only a few potions and ROLEPLAY that you have limited space.

if you put that limit on EVERYONE... NO ONE will be able to roleplay how they want, they'll all be forced to play YOUR way, and that would severely damage bethesda's reputation and skyrim's sales, thats without a doubt.

if someone wants to have a magical bag where they can store 20 weapons and 4 suits of armor, then they can do that, if someone wants their character to be limited, they can do that... why do you want such limits put into the game where you dont have ANY choice but to deal with them?!

im sorry for yelling, but... god, i just dont GET you people!

WHY do you want limits, WHY do you want guns, WHY do you want 100% realism in these games?! WHY?!!?! :banghead:

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:14 pm

the challenge is that you have to actually go out and collect that fire resistant armor and dragon slaying weapon
if you EARN those items, you are entitled to use them when they're effective
it's not like they hand them out for entering the town or something

Well...after Oblivion...

Anywhoo...I mean the very idea that you would have multiple sets of armor in your inventory is a problem, nevermind having the time to doff your first and don your second.

In my world, you tell yourself "What am I going to do today? Well, that dragon still needs slaying. Better bring my Mail of the Dragonbane. What's this, a frost troll? I had better avoid him, or skillfully engage him in combat, or attack him from afar with my own magic or missles. It would be silly to run all the way back home and change into my Snowshield armor. But not as silly as bringing both pairs with me. I'd get exhausted!"

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:40 pm

Absolutely not. I like games to be games not super realistic.

Agreed, but....

I think the whole "hold two guns max" thing that almost every FPS uses now for example is just plain outright boring compared to the variety of older games where you could hold many weapons.

I think this depends highly upon the game in question. If you are playing Serious Sam, Doom, or even Fallout, then sure, but Halo (just for example) had a different atmosphere, and secondary melee attacks with the weapons.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:48 am

To all the people saying "just ignore it":

Imagine if you will that there was an "I Win" button in your inventory at all times, and whenever you wanted to this "I Win" button would heal you up, buff you and knock your enemies health down by a lot. Could you honestly play the game with that option always nagging you? Just knowing that such an option exists is enough to break immersion and suspension of disbelief, as well as tempt players with weaker wills who would other wise just brave the content of the game without resorting to cheap options.

Yes. I can absolutely refrain from pressing the "I win" button. Just a few hours ago I came against a battle I couldn't seem to win in Dragon Age origins. Instead of lowering the difficulty I kept reloading my save right before the battle until I eventually won due to awesome tactics -and a little luck-
I'm all for options for players who just want to relax and have fun. I love a good challenge myself. But that doesn't mean everyone does. :shrug:

So, along with that I'm not interested in this system of not letting you swap gear or limiting your options. I think all you more "hardcoe" players should show restraint yourselves. There is no need making the game more bogged down for everyone else just because you want more realism. You can do that yourself. Or if Bethesda want's to add a "hardcoe" mode that implements these kind of things more power to you.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:35 pm

Well...after Oblivion...

Anywhoo...I mean the very idea that you would have multiple sets of armor in your inventory is a problem, nevermind having the time to doff your first and don your second.

In my world, you tell yourself "What am I going to do today? Well, that dragon still needs slaying. Better bring my Mail of the Dragonbane. What's this, a frost troll? I had better avoid him, or skillfully engage him in combat, or attack him from afar with my own magic or missles. It would be silly to run all the way back home and change into my Snowshield armor. But not as silly as bringing both pairs with me. I'd get exhausted!"

Why would you get exhausted, if your encumbrance allows you to go ahead and carry that extra armor with you? You are a strong warrior, and your strength rating and maximum encumbrance reflect the fact that you might be better suited to carry extra equipment and loot. Just another way that stats are affecting your character.