what do you mean "keep opinions out of polls"? oblivion annoyed many hardcoe players because it was too casual. thus i put it under not ticking hardcoes of- as it did- and above the other option

This is more a PC question isn't it?

You want super-duper hardcoe, fine - MOD it, the PC fans are always gloating about their precious MODS. So, MOD away.. leave hardcoe as an option for the console crowd.

Make the game too hardcoe and you can kiss the majority of your sales away.

morrowind was very unforgiving at times!


ever won against a vampire or dremora at level 4?

thought not.


to this day i still havent killed a morrowind vampire- and i completed the main quest (with the occasional cheat)

Personally, I think the concepts of "hard-core" and "casual" is something where the world would really be a much better place if the terms were never coined. That way, companies would be able to stop chasing this illusory demographic of "casual players."

And companies do need to start re-learning that there's a difference between intuitive and "simple." I still think The Sims is what started all this "casual" nonsense in the first place. It simply happened to be a perfect storm of a game that was very simple to immediately and intuitively grasp how to play - with enough emergent complexity (and, technically, some pretty high-end RPG mechanics under the hood) to please everyone.

Back on point, however - I don't think there even is a "casual" demographic - not as something you could market effectively towards (which is why they seem so very elusive.) My wife, for example. She fits the definition of a "casual" gamer, if anyone does. She loves Mass Effect (and KOTOR, as well.) Played it tons of times through. She plays on Easy (and sometimes I have to help her through certain parts - though she's improving.) She likes the story and the characters - the combat is just something she has to get through between conversations.

She also has absolutely no interest in anything made by Bethesda. Just doesn't appeal to her. It's not the difficulty that turns her off. She could care less if there was a Quest Compass or not. There's nothing so terribly complicated in any of those games that would make a casual gamer balk. It just doesn't appeal to her. She didn't connect with any of the characters - and with no way to really emote into the world with your own character, there was nothing to grab her. She had a little bit of fun for a while making characters through the facegen system, but that was about it.

My point being - catching the "casual" gamers (as I see it) has less to do with "complexity" (and I'm sorry, but I never found any of the Elder Scrolls games to have had all that intricate of a ruleset to begin with,) and more to do with the content itself. By it's very nature of design philosophy, I think a Mass Effect RPG is going to garner a more mainstream audience than something like Elder Scrolls.

(Oh, and I like having a Quest Compass. I also find there to be a world of difference between "immersion" and just plain tedium. I find two things that really cut down on the latter for me are Fast Travel and Quest Compasses, without getting in the way of the former. Though, of course, that's just my opinion...)

yOURRRR SOOOOOO wrong!!!!
Casual : Hawx / Hard core: DCS black shark & DCS A10C
Casual : COD, MOH, CS / Hard core: ARMA

Casual : don t want it to be complex or interesting, just want to be able to play with a brain fart, zombies can go trought it.
Hard core : Wan t something interesting, where thing have to be tought at least sometimes, situation bring moral choices and you have to deal with your acts, sucesses and failures, no matter how detrimental they are to yourself, and at least sometimes diferents way to get the same results, require some or a lot of learning, more plausible toward fisics and cause and consequences.

Translation in TES:
Arena / Faggerfall = More hardcoe
Morrowind = less hardcoe
Oblivion = Brainfart.
Skyrim = ? Probably brainfart again, brainfart sells to zombies.

Translation in TES:
Arena / Faggerfall = More hardcoe
Morrowind = less hardcoe
Oblivion = Brainfart.
Skyrim = ? Probably brainfart again, brainfart sells to zombies.

I sure hope this a typo! :swear:

Brainfart? Seriously, and you think Skyrim will svck?
Just leave this forums please...

And your whole post sounds like you are a casual gamer.

You're being sarcastic right, simply parodizing right? I can't even read some of those sentences. what the hell is "fisics"?

I sure hope this a typo! :swear:

Brainfart? Seriously, and you think Skyrim will svck? Your pessimism and poor grammar makes me sick
Just leave this forums please...

And your whole post sounds like you are a casual gamer.

And dude, DCS series is a combat simulator, that doesn't make it hardcoe. It ain't even a true game.

Also, your post about hardcoe RPGs on the market makes clear that you don't know a thing about RPGs. There are tons of hardcoe RPGs everywhere, they are just not as famous as "casual" RPGs. The Witcher and Demon Souls are two great examples.

The Witcher, an hardcoe RPG, well received by every RPG gamer. Sold over a million units.

STALKER, an hardcoe shooter, well received and extremely well sold by critics and gamers. Sold over 4 million units.

Fallout New Vegas, an Fallout 3 grade RPG, but with extremely great RPG mechanics and writing that sticks to the roots of hardcoe RPGs. Sold over 4 million units.

Demon Souls, a extremely hard and deep RPG, very well received and won various awards for Best RPG and Game of the Year.

These are some examples that hardcoe games can profit very well, all of these games are accessible and easy to understand by any casual player, though hard and difficult to master. I don't see why Bethesda won't apply this logic to their games, and make them great hardcoe RPGs but very accessible to anyone who wants to play it.

Ad yes i fear SKYRIM will be way more Oblivion than daggerfall or even Morrwind and that mean, brainfart not that Morrowind was hardcoe. As i sayd there s no hardcoe RPG... anymore. (Go play The Witcher and Demon Souls and you will change your mind. I doubt you ever played Daggerfall to be honest, heck even Morrowind.)
Remember there are imformations, true or not, that attributes will be scrapped (Everything that is being said about attributes being scrapped is speculation), skill haven t grown (I don't see any problem with this, as long as they are balanced and work well), we dont know if combat will be Oblivion like (unafected by attribute or skill), there s bullet time (What did you read that? There is no bullet time dude...), compass ain t optional (Yes it is, HUD is toogleable) which mean they ll, at least at this stage, will do crappy descriptions because, 1) it will be voiced becuasse of radial engine (Radial engine? What the-?), paying actors cost money, they are paid by hours of work and 2) if you have the compass we can be lazy on that department.
Bulettime as an excuse to be able to kill dragons (Wrong again, there is no bullet time. However there are these special abilities called Dragon Shouts, they can be used at anytime, and there is only one that slows time, they are not restricted to fighting Dragons) (FPS anyone)
Dragons everywhere, you won t say you can t remember how many dragon based games where released recently, this mean an unimaginative setting, and overused asset: Dragons; (Let's wait before jumping into conclusions, plus TES lore on dragons are far more interesting and complex than the simple fire-breathing gigantic reptiles from say, Dragon Age)
since killing Dragons won t solve anything , Dragons can be compared to Oblivion gates, so, an unimaginative way to handle the game,
Those are facts, well most of them, sorry to blast your buble, but skyrim being as Oblivion is definitly a possibility.

My comments in red. Almost everything you stated are not facts, and some are just speculation. Think twice and research before posting.