I completely agree with them, especially when thinking about Skyrim, where TES is headed, and disgruntled fans.

Game difficulty isn't the main issue that bothers me when it comes to the so-called dumbing-down of RPGs.

What bothers me more is a lack of content, depth, and freedom to go where you want, do what you want, and be who you want.

In general, making an RPG "more accessible", "simpler" or "more appealing to mainstream action game fans" are three things I don't want to hear.

:thumbsup:

No one is psychic, you pour your heart and soul into a game, make what -you- want into it and what -you- want people to see and experience and then throw it into the crowd, who picks it up picks it up, who doesn't doesnt.


those 3 terms simply scream 'for the money' which isnt a bad thing in itself, its trying to rationalize that descision with half arsed sympathetic phrases.


that said, its a new game lets see where it goes

I like Kerberos, Valve, Bioware and CD project because they made the game because -they- wanted to without significant influences or pressures, Bioware took a crap with DA2, understandable, EA is behind them who wouldn't but when I saw their confirmations about ME3, I freaking cried, they listened to the gripes for both games and said alright lets step back and get these right, not CUT them, theres nothing BUT improvements across the board to everything listed for ME3 thus far.

Valve is self explanatory.

CDproject even acknowledge there fans in the last set of vids they released prior to Witcher 2's release, a little snippet saying please don't pirate our games, we put alot of hard work into them for our fans, and they are going so far as to making every DLC free......I mean, you don't lose, you don't lose sentiments aside you DO NOT push audiences away with that kind of gesture.

Kerberos I doubt anyone here have heard of, but trust it they are just another example of an Iconic Game dev company. in every expansion pack they released for their primary game, it only added to the story, content and gameplay options possible, EVERYTHING was relevant, any and all bugs brought up were squashed within reason and they even should some heart to their Modding base as well and now a second interation of their game is coming out and it too is not just a rehash of the old title, its utterly and freaking new, no reskinnings or new paint, everything is utterly different and improved from the old game

Beth...Please kick ass....please...


sure Skyrim is frothing with new features, but there is just so much -LOOK YOU CAN DO THIS- and -LOOK AT THAT DO IT- leaving very little of anything up to the player to stumble across :confused:

Meh, don't really care as long as a game is fun.

Demon's Souls, from what I've seen of it, is one of those games that seems like it'll start "what is an RPG" arguments. I mean, yeah it's got classes and stats and equipment.... but it's an action beat-em-up, right? Like Devil May Cry, but with some stats tacked on? (Or is that incorrect? I've seen some of the boss fight videos on Youtube, to see what the big deal was. And it seemed like one of those old-school action games - attack huge thing that'll crush you if you miss one dodge, while trying to find the weak point to attack http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForMassiveDamage.)


Whatever it is, it didn't look very attractive at all. But then, I've never really felt any desire to play those 3rd-person action-boss-fight games (DMC, Bayonetta, God of War, etc.)

i can say very confidently that "the witcher 2" is my new favorite RPG, the only downside is right now there's MAJOR issues w/ framerates >.<
and the mention of demon souls... the reason i never beat it was because of it's RIDICULOUSLY hard combat >.<

This. Beautiful man, just beautiful. Finally someone with some common sense. Devs need to stop dumbing down their games to get wider audiences. If you think about the more devs try to make their games ''accessible'' the more they lose their true fanbase. Their original fanbase is what got their game out there to audiences. All about word of mouth. If they would actually present their games they way THEY want to present them the more fans they will actually get. Its all about being original and throwing out a unique experience that is different from your ''mainstream'' games. Thats the way you get a fanbase.

I'll take a game being too hard over a game that is too easy any day. Why? Because with a game that makes you think through strategies instead of no brainer moves, I feel that I get my money's worth.

Loss of options invariably means loss of consequences which diminishes replay value and the sense of accomplishment.

Yeah, The Witcher 2 has set a few bars with this release......

When was the last time a map shipped with a CRPG? Or the playthrough book?

And talk about sys specs. Definitely a multicore game....and plan on a seriously gutsy card. My current Athlon 64 X2 3200 and Geforce 9800GT produces a default video detection of nearly all features low or disabled. Fortunately I have a Geforce 460GTX just waiting to be installed along with the upgraded parts.

Can't say much about the gameplay yet, but even with so much eye candy disabled, it looks fantastic. And I love the concept of the modular NPC that they described.

Now we wait for 7 months to see what bars Skyrim sets.

Thinking about DragonAgeII and then Witcher2 (if you've played both) makes you realize how much a big company can fail, and how much a smaller one can succeed.

Well then, this covers majority of TES players. Does it not? Bethesda should make the game harder for us. :teehee:


I agree. I think Skyrim(or any other TES game) is fine though.


It should be more accessible. Good game design dictates this. And mainstream action game, TES was always a great action game. More the action, the better the ACTION/RP game as long as you don't sacrifice roleplaying, content, depth and freedom. And there is no need to sacrifice them. Action even improves roleplay and means more freedom.

Moral of this story; Mainstream kills everything in time.

Look at the rap industry.

I really hope Bethesda doesn't follow this path. It's sickening. I'm tired of games trying to appeal to your average gamer, because that means having certain aspects of the game simplified, which in turn usually means less detail, and that's a bad RPG.

Please Todd, I have faith, but you really need to pull this one off this year, or you will lose a lot of your original fanbase.

I wouldn't be too sure of that, Witcher2 is seen as considerably better than Witcher1 so far.

"To them, playing a game that has more dynamic and fluent combat is probably something against what they're used to, and they're probably screaming loudest."


Just because you aren't used to it doesn't mean its being dumbed down...

Because Witcher 1 wasn't that great to begin with so the sequel will be considerably better. Just look at Two Worlds, same exact thing.

Is the whole "super-combo-action-combat" thing really so popular? The preview trailers for Witcher 2 also didn't really do anything for me. The combat turned me off completely. :sadvaultboy:

Here's hoping that the "improved" combat in Skyrim is closer to MW/Oblivion's than it is to other modern Action "RPGs"...

How does more dynamic and fluent combat dumb a game down? I dont see the problem.

I'm sorry, but the original post really doesn't have anything to do with the type of "dumbing down" people have complained about with this game.

I disagree with the article, RPG's have gotten better over the last 5 years especially when we don't have to worry about respawing at a specific save point when you get killed.

Witcher 2 is an example of change that is -good-

I don't think Beth is a money hungry super giant and I don't want Skyrim to be a Carbon copy of old games, I want Bethesda to go back to smoking whatever the hell they were smoking when they made Morrowind and run with it, make their -own- game, not a game influenced by Bonnie, Lusie and their half Cousin George. TES has enough Lore to Sink a Modern Aircraft Carrier, use it! not mimic other games to lull people from one genre to another.

When that combat takes center focus it dumbs down a game.

like when beth went from questjournal in morrowind to oblivions hand holding quest markers

Does it have to? I just wanted to talk about combat.


If you're talking about the whole attribute thing, I dont' consider it a dumb down since they replaced it with 18 perk trees, not just removed.

That's not the point I'm trying to make; What I mean is that Bethesda is going to try to appeal to the more casual gamers out there, and if that means making the combat flashy and cool, fine, I like that addition. But they won't stop there I'm afraid, I'm just imagining all of the side quests (possibly parts of the MQ too) that are tailored for 12 year olds and don't hold any real depth for them.

I'm just saying that Todd really needs to pull this RPG off in which it'll appeal to hardcoe and casual gamers alike.

The Witcher 2 is an example of good change because the first one already had tons of issues. Two worlds 2 is exactly like this, where the first one was just plain awful, but the second one had a lot of improvements (but was still a mediocre RPG.)

Combat is as legit as any other category in a game. Also how do you know their center focus is combat?


You're doing it wrong.

Morrowind quest system to Oblivion's quest system. Simplification.
Morrowind directions to Oblivion's quest markers. Oversimplification, hence dumbing down.