I ve been going on and on about how weak Ceaser s Legion is during in game combat.

This question is not about if you liked FO3 or New Vegas. This question is not about lore or canon. It s not about bringing the Enclave back or if they are still out there. This question is not about if you played the older Fallouts

It s about pure in game combat with every thing they had on the table.

Who was more likely to kill you/ hurt you/ kill a follower Ceaser s Legion of New Vegas or The Enclave of FO3 and why??????

Please be sure to explain your answer to the best of your ability. Im not even going to reply to these posts, but only read them. I just want to know what you all think.

The Legion. I got apsolutely destroyed by the assassins they sent after me.

Whereas I was killing Enclave troops with potshots from a hunting rifle.

Enclave....

Whyyyy?


Vertibirds, power armor, laser and plasma weapons.

Enclave.

I hate energy weapons.
and don't remind me of those energy grenades.
legion easy, just shoot 'em

Depends on level really.
Enclave, sure they could kill me at first and at special encounters but not so much the rest of the time.
Legion, yeah they can kick my ass depending on what kinda character I've planned, if I walk around in Combat Armor MK II and wields a GMG then no.
If I walk around in Leather Jacket and have some crappy rifle like the cowboy repeater or 9mm SMG then yeah they'll kick my ass.
I don't walk around in "the best" most of the time though, but my main enemy is actually NCR.

And:

NCR is pathetic, worst enemy ever.
Only one's that pose a challenge is the Desert Rangers and those doesn't show up until way later in the game and only at specific locations.

Legion

Got killed by asassins squad more than just one time

They are experts in melee weapons

DT make them more harder

Im playing on Very Hard and hardcoe btw

I love Enclave, but in Fallout 3 they are a cakewalk, even in power armor they are just a shame for the defense of the United States

None.

Fallout 3 Enclave is god awful, they wouldn't stand a chance against Legion seeing that they have DT and the Enclave has this little gimped thing called DR.

Caesar's Legion, while superior to FO3's Enclave, wouldn't stand a chance against the 'true' Enclave.

Fallout 2's Enclave would butcher anything, though.

Legion. They have large numbers and they make us of spies.

Fallout 3 Enclave, have the military tech but they don't seem to like using it.

Who would win in a lore fight? As in leaving mechanics out of it? Enclave hands down. Their air superiority alone would leave the Legion wondering what the hell happened.

Whos more likely to kill my character in game? Unfortunately Caesar's Legion soldiers, but thats really not how it should be. If you would give the Fallout 3 Enclave the DT that Legion troops have, then I would say Enclave bar none.

So basically it comes down to damage threshold.

Like I said, Legion wins if only because of DT.

Yeah, this. It's DT which Bethesda took out for Fallout 3, and voila, your character was a god.

Legion would wipe the floor with them. in game Enclave armor is so broken that it barely gives any protection at all.

Lets bring back DT/DR hybrid shall we?

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=37306

Use that mod

The only thing it can't do is have separate entries by damage type

Caesar's Legion. The Enclave were so damn gimped that it isn't even amusing in the slightest -well... it kinda is...

The Enclave used to wipe the floor with me in Fallout 2, it's a sad sight indeed.

The remnants tore a path through Arizona and there were only a handfull of them, I say enclave.

This is like comparing the BOS to the raiders we all know who is going to win...

Gameplay wise, FONV Raiders, because they have DT, and the BOS are weak with their DR

We are not speaking lore wise or what's realtistic. We all know that the Eastern BoS would wipe the floor with fiends, and the Enclave would wipe the floor with Caesar's Legion, but gameplay wise, the enemies in Fallout 3 were too easy due to their lack of DT and Bethesdas equivalent was higher HP enemies aka bullet sponges.

We have few invalid answers. Gabriel though you did more writing than anyone ( which is great ) you failed to answer the question. Over all with everything they had on the table (and when you are not making it harder for youself). Who was more likely to hurt you/kill you/kill a follower..... and why????

Styles you have to be going off of lore of some kind in your answer, because Enclave had posts and check points all over the map with 3-6 hostiles plus two bases. I know for a fact that Enclave had more men, robots, gun turrets and controled deathclaws on the map than CL. You can t take lore into account in this question only in game combat overall with everything they had on the table.... and why??? vs. your player not each other.

Ace, we don t know your answer. lol You didn t write it, and you can t take lore into account only in game combat overall.......and why????

Now I would have made this a poll, but with ps3 I can t use all the functions of this site. I can only read and write.

Apex they are not fightng each other in this question only you in the games. Also you can not take lore into account only in game combat. vs you overall with everything they had on the table (in game) who was more likely to hurt you/ kill you/ kill a follower.... and why???

Overall? With a lvl 35/30 character with no consideration for making a challenge for myself? On Very Hard?
Then neither.

Balance is horrid in both games and both fail to provide a decent challenge.
Difference between them is that if I nerf myself in FO3 it's barely a challenge while if I nerf myself in Vegas then the challenge is greatly increased.

Both of them hand out too many skill points, too many perks, too unbalanced perks, too great of gear while delivering crap gear and stats to the enemies.
In this case, Enclave's damage is pathetic with their nerfed plasma and laser weapons with only Hellfire being a problem but even Hellfire are easily disposed off since they follow the DR design.
Legion on the other hand follow the DT design so while they can prove to be more of a challenge, especially veterans or centurions their static spawns are still filled with recruits and decanus which doesn't have the best of gear.

A way to fix both scenarios would be to give Enclave soldiers a hidden perk which increases EW damage by 10% for regular, 30% for Tesla and 50% for Hellfire then to give Legion's firearms users AP rounds and a hidden +15% damage perk and also to give every single Legion member a 20% increase in running speed (since this is what they are suppose to be best at, closing the range between themselves and their enemies.).

Unless that is done then neither presents a challenge at top level.

So at mid level?
Neither there either, Enclave are level scaled and since laser weapons svck in FO3 and their armor DR% is crap they hardly present much of a challenge unless one plays as an unarmed character and have not found a power fist or deathclaw gauntlet yet.

At low level?
Legion wins there, I hate facing them at lower levels as they usually kick my ass.
Enclave on the other hand I never face during the lower levels as when I do the Waters Of Life quest I'm already at lvl 12+ so I couldn't comment on them.


Overall, Legion "can" be dangerous but it's not often and Enclave's Hellfire soldiers can be a tough nut at lvl 22 if one hasn't gotten good gear yet but otherwise they're also very easily to dispose of.

So it's a tie for me.
What faction I do think is hard is Talon Company, they have been more challenging than both of these factions for me.

Gabriel, I agree with everything you have posted there. They should put you in charge of fo NPC combat faction design ( or me )

Surely one of the two must have hurt you more/ killed you more / or killed your followers more. There can t be a tie lol

NO TIES to anyone else that may post an answer here. Ties are not allowed.

The other person that says none later goes on to say Legion/dt. That is why I counted his answer, and don t want him to answer again.

Hmm, so no ties then?
Okay, who of the two factions that got me killed more was Legion.
Only time I had a serious problem with Enclave was the last mission of Broken Steel, I had used up most of my stimpacks and were limping around with fireballs coming at me from all directions.

In FNV, enemies have DT so they are harder to kill, but you've also got DT so you are harder to kill.
In FO3, enemies have DR so they are easier to kill, but you've also got DR so you are easier to kill. BUT! In FO3, you are so very very overpowered with that many perks and skill points and attribute raisers and whatnot, you simply kick too much ass.

At high level, you kick both CL and Enclave ass.
At low level (or if you nerf yourself with a weak weapon and no armor, just clothes), CL kicks your ass while you can (probably) kick Enclaves ass, but you don't meet them until later on. But judging from how you could kick Super Mutant ass with weak weapons at a low level in FO3, and NOT in FNV, I'd say that the Enclave would be easier.