Last thread was engulf in flame.

However I think this topic is worth CIVIL discussion.

I personally think they are pretty good as they are now, they only need DR buff like Rangers do.


As long as their stat is good, I don't mind if they are level 1.

And no, I rather them have Brush Gun, Shishkebab, Fire Axe and other deadly weapon than a PDW.

centurions are only lvl 12.
ONLY 12!
they need major buffs

So it is cool to have them on level 30 but with only a 100hp?

they should be on the same plain as vet rangers or higher.
not far below

They're leveled.. the lowest is ten.. the highest 33.

After having a look in the geck at the

They spawn from a leveled list with a modifier of hard which I presume affects their level. However they run and cringe like cowards when their health gets low which is not really the battle hardened behaviour they should be showing. A buff like nerd rage when they get low on health would be good, and no confidence checks so they don't run. Aurelius Pheonix is only level 15 as well which is a little low I think for his posting and after finding him cringing in one of the tents.
Yes they need to be toughened up.

You have to realize they are still human size DeathClaw with range atm.

I agree they should be better, but level don't have much to do with it; they can raise the level of Centurion and leave them in their current stats.

Like I said on the old thread, there should be more Primus Decanus and Praetorians to make up late teen and Battle of Hoover Dam, than have the Centurions DR like the Ranger Veterans, and yes a Nerd Rage perk.

Of course they should have the Centurions DR like the Ranger Vets. They're as bloody rare and the game is already biased enough in favour of the NCR.

They should be on par with the ranger veterans in terms of overall ability but their stats should be different.
So the rangers should perhaps be more skillful, certainly at range (not in melee) and have higher defence while the centurions should be better in melee with high attack power, toughness and so on.
I like the idea of something similar to nerd rage, berserk fury or something where when low on health they go all out. Seeing one of the most battle hardened warriors, psyched for battle and willing to give his life on a whim, running away after some of his comrades die? No. I would be iffy about the recruits doing it but a centurion just wouldn't...


So yeah, toughen them up a lot, they should be a little stronger than ranger veterans in my opinion, let down only by relatively weaker ability with guns.
The most logical reason for their current state is that otherwise the legion would destroy the NCR across the board, as it is ordinary recruits can butcher NCR troopers.

Does everyone seem to forget that the modus operandi for the Legion is to swarm? They win by numbers, not super beefed up soldiers. I would say maybe add a lot more of them in
certain spots (like Cottonwood Cove, etc.).

Not really, they use tactics which the NCR don't. Small groups are often used to take on large numbers of enemies. Wasn't Nelson taken by a small group then more reinforcements were shipped in?
Besides, even if the majority did the centurions are still pretty tough buggers, they've been through a lot of fights, shown their prowess in battle and are relatively well equipped...it's not like they're running around with a knife and a belt after watching a couple of rambo films.

According to my test - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmr5e6Nwmyk

No.

In 4 men test there is 2 Praetorian.

Have you tried Centurion with Marksmen Carbine/AMR vs Veteran Rangers?

Really? There are Praetorians? o.o

I have tried Centurions with marksman carbines in my other soon to be edited video. However, it was 5 v 2 and the centurions still lost.

What is the AMR?

All that video proves is how unfair the game is, making the games bias towards the NCR all but too apparent, the Centurions have each personally killed hundreds of opponents face-to-face just to qualify for the Centurion rank, and they are outmatched at close range by who are supposed to be primarilly snipers. I looked it up, Centurions have a Melee Weapons skill of 76!?!?!?

Ranger Statistics:
SPECIAL: 5ST, 6PE, 6EN, 4CH, 5IN, 6AG, 5LK
derived stats: Health: 225 → 270 → 295 (Dead Money only)
DT: 17 → 24
tag skills: Guns: 100
Sneak: 100
Unarmed: 100
perks: Ranger Toughness (DR: 30%)
level: 21 → 30

Centurion Statistics:
SPECIAL:
Wasteland: 6ST, 5PE, 6EN, 4CH, 4IN, 5AG, 5LK
Hoover Dam: 7ST, 4PE, 5EN, 6CH, 4IN, 5AG, 4LK
derived stats:
Wasteland:
Hit Points: 130DT: ? → 23
Hoover Dam:
Hit Points: 80 → 195DT: ? → 18 (without helmet)
DT: ? → 23 (with helmet)
tag skills: Wasteland:
Melee Weapons: 76Guns: 74
Unarmed: 76Hoover Dam:
Melee Weapons: 69 → 100Guns: 65 → 100
Unarmed: 65 → 100
level:
Wasteland: 12
Hoover Dam: 10 → 33

Note how Centurions have an X-Y but Rangers are always ridiculously powerful.

You do know that NCR Veteran Rangers always have over 200-250 hit points.

I though Centurion have 300 hp.....or was that Official Game Guide magic?

They have, at max, 175hp; 76, 65-100 (Depending on your level at Hoover Dam, note that Rangers are always at their strongest) Melee/Unarmed; and are level 12.

:brokencomputer: Using a Ps3 and having trouble editting last post, thing's freaking out on me ...

Adding to last post: Also note that they have 5-6 END, I for one think the END of a Centurion should be 7 or 8, along with STR and AGI, they should also have a DR Perk or a Run Speed Perk anolagous to Ranger Toughness, Ie: Centurion Swiftness or Centurion Durability.

Bump, I did a little lookin and it is stupid. Ranger Vets come in one variation, strong. Centurions come in two variations, weak and weaker. How could they think this was okay?

I guess they balance the game at different points and forgot either one?

Anyways, I think there should be max 5 Centurion spawn in the Fort, about 20 scatter over Hoover and Lanius' Camp in the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam, and with following stat:

Fort Centurion
S.P.E.C.I.A.L
8 6 8 4 4 7 5

Tag:Unarmed, Melee, Gun

Lv 20(?)
HP:350
+10DR
Nerd Rage
Legion Attack

Weapon(range): AMR, Brush Gun, Hunting Revolver, Hunting Shotgun and Marksmen Carbine.
(Close quarter): Ballistic Fist, Chainsaw, Fire Axe, Shishkebab and Super Sledge.

2nd Battle of Hoover Dam Centurion:
S.P.E.C.I.A.L
8 6 8 4 4 7 5

Tag:Unarmed, Melee, Gun

Lv15~28
HP:280~410
+10DR
Nerd Rage
Legion Attack

Weapon(range): As above; except if player is Lv20 or lower Hunting Rifle, Trail Carbine, .44 Revolver, Lever action Shotgun instead.
(Close quarter): As above; except if player is Lv20 or lower Powerfist, Machete Gladiolus, Bumper Sword, Rebar Club instead.

Aurelius the Phoenix
S.P.E.C.I.A.L
8 6 8 5 5 7 6

Tag:Unarmed, Melee, Gun

Lv 22
HP:420
+10DR
Nerd Rage
Legion Attack
Slayer

Weapon:Machete Gladiolus, Trail Carbine.

I dont see why there should be any "balance the game at different points" rubbish, the Ranger Vets, whom spawn at a point in the MQ, same as Centurions i assume, are always at their maximum strength, Centurions should have one set array of specifications, that being the first thing you suggested.

Bump, the issue has raised itself again in another thread. The reason i am so against the weakness of the Centurions is because NCR Veteran Rangers are way to strong in comparison, NCR Vets should be weaker physically but make up for it with skill in guns, whereas the Centurion is tougher physically but prefers to attack using close range weapons.

Yes which considering they use melee weapons they would get wrecked by people with guns...

that is no excuse for the guys who use guns to have over 250 HP, when the guys who use Melee and survive for years in the most brutal army of the wasteland, killing hundreds of opponents, have less than 200.