"When I was, a younger man, I hadn't a care... I was foolin' round, feelin' down, growin' mah hai--ai-air..."

I was also into caving. I used to go to these elaborate caves in different places. Carlsbad is pretty good. There are several good spots in Colorado too.

Know what I used to do? I had this special stuff I squirted on walls that glowed. I'd make different marks for places I had been, to indicate the direction of the exit, to indicate hazardous areas and so on.

Most cavers do this. Sometimes we used unique symbols, but some were "universally understood" too. I'm rambling...


What I'd like to see in Skyrim is .... Chalk. Yep. Chalk.

I'd like to be able to mark the walls of a cave in the game with a symbol or series of symbols so that I understood where I had been, where I still needed to explore, where there's a trap, and which way is out, among other things.

I don't even care if it's just a small dot on the cave wall that can be clearly seen. If I can leave one, two, or three dots next to each other, I can understand what they mean and use them as I see fit. If they're different colors that works too. Bonus if it adds a mark to that spot on my map in the game.

Yep. Not a real complicated idea. Simple actually...

But some of the dungeons in Oblivion and the expansions were massive. I imagine that there will be even larger dungeons in Skyrim. Some of them can get VERY confusing.

A little chalk would go a long way.

If I was ever in a dungeon in Morrowind or Oblivion and I wanted to mark a certain area, I'd just drop an item that stands out on the ground.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't know if it would be entirely necessary when there are typically maps of caves and things like that.

Oddly, this is often what I use an amber arrow for.


This presumes that every person playing the game has access to the internet to find the appropriate map. It also presumes that everyone wants to see the walk-through and all the spoilers. I don't want to do that. I'm probably not alone.

I like to make my own discoveries. I prefer the ability to find things on my own except in unusual cases. I usually only use the Oblivion wiki to make sure that I've not screwed a quest up after I've already completed it but haven't saved yet.

I don't want to be led around by the nose. I just want the ability to find my own way.

My vote goes to a little glowing mushroom from Morrowind and Oblivion called http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Luminous_Russula. If you made them harvest-able again, and give the plucked mushrooms the same glowing quality once you drop them, the player would have a luminescent source of bread crumbs to mark their path, without having to produce a torch or cast night eye to see their markings in darker areas (where you would need a path marker the most).

Edit: This would also more closely approximate the glowing spray that you mentioned, without having to introduce anything new to the game world.

Or it presumes the fact that there is a local map for every cell you enter that draws the map as you walk around in the cell, just like Morrowind and Oblivion. It could possibly be that -.-

They just need to make the local map better. Make so the area revealed is much smaller, so you won't reveal places you haven't been through the walls. Then give it some king of a height system so when you go down a ramp or through a hole in the floor it stops showing the other parts on a different height. That was the main problem with Alyeid Ruins, they would often have many floors all in the same small area so the local map ends up looking like a box or just really messy and not helpful.

Uh huh... :whistling:

Anyway, like people have said I'd just drop an item. It's a bit of a redundant feature really. I mean, if they don't even have time to add spears...

Hmm at the very least they could allow multiple map markers like Blue, Orange, Yellow, etc. That would work.

Fair enough, but just because I can see a wall doesn't mean I went over to it or looked inside the nook it hides.

Our maps don't mark traps, nor do they mark buttons or levers, and even if they did I wouldn't see them while walking through as my character.

That is my point. You walk into a room and there are two hallways going in opposite directions. You take the left path and you go a little ways until it is a dead end. You head back to the room and say "Oh noes! which path haven't I gone down yet?" Simple, you pull up the map and look for the hallway that isn't filled in yet. You know that that hallway has not been adventured down yet.

As far as maps not marking traps, they definitely shouldn't do this on their own, as they would no longer be traps. Buttons and levers should also have to be seen by the player, otherwise they might as well just keep every path open and every door unlocked. If you can't see a lever or a button while walking around an old fort you have more important things to worry about. At the very least you should be able to add custom annotations to your maps so you can write down "Button here, not sure for what door." or "Stay by wall here, pressure plate trap."

If the game does everything for you then it isn't a game, its a movie.

Except... That's not how Elder Scrolls maps worked historically. I pretty constantly get paths and rooms filled in that I've never been in before.



And the point of an RPG is to give real life freedom to fictional characters, yet we aren't given a way to mark something significant down on a piece of paper like any five year-old could?

That's why I already said they need to fix it so the area that appears on the map when you walk is smaller, as well as make so it won't mark down parts of the map on different levels if you are walking on a walkway above. This keeps it from revealing places you haven't been.

Which is why I said it would be nice if you could put custom annotations (definition: note that is made while reading something for added clarification) on the map. Give you the option to mark things on your map, but don't force it on everyone. RPGs are about freedom of choice. You should be able to mark things if you need to, but don't make it something that happens to everyone.

Really, if you want to discuss this you should read the entire posts of other people, not just find something you think is wrong and reply to that while ignoring the rest. Every point of mine you have argued against so far had already been explained or justified before you responded, usually in the same post of the "issue" you propose to me.

Edit: I'm tracking this as I have to go to work now, be back in about 6 hours, hopefully it doesn't get locked as this discussion is the best one I've had on this forum for a while. Ever since the great Longsword Debate of Early January.

Fair enough. I missed that point earlier somehow. I apologize.



Again I agree. Thus... Chalk. Don't want it? Don't use it.



I skim posts. It's a bad habit. I apologize again.

I do rather like the idea of chalk, personally. Sure, the auto-mapping can be somewhat helpful to a certain extent - but it does have it's limitations.

Especially when dealing with dungeons with multiple levels, for example. Or those with more intricate passageways. Obviously, the mapping system could probably use a bit more improvement; and it's always possible to simply make use of items to drop around and keep track of where you've been.

But I still like the chalk idea the best, personally. It seems rather direct, easy to use, and useful, to me. Instead of having to continually be accessing an in-game map (that may or may not be of all that much use to me,) I could simply be consulting my own markings to see which areas I've explored or not.

This is a problem I've continually come across in Bethesda games for some time now. And I have "missed out" on areas on occasion - where I thought I had fully explored it all the way, only to find that I'd missed some crucial passageway, and never found the "cool stuff at the end of the level that made the whole trip worthwhile."

chalk isn't a quest object it would get wiped away after 2 days

I love your idea and it should be implemented

Todd has said that oil can be set on fire - from that I think alchemists will be able to thrown bottles of oil - they should also be able to throw bottles of dye to mark walls.

Doesn't automapping make this a bit redundant? Don't get me wrong, if the caverns and dungeons are complex enough that chalk is a great asset rather than being a novelty item, I'm all for it.

Are you honestly suggesting that you were able to fully explore something like http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Shivering:Rotten_Den coherently the first time you were in it? This is one of many examples - and the next game will undoubtedly have more of this.

A little chalk would go a long way.

I like this idea. Even without using it to map what areas you've been to before (what with the ingame map, however good that'll be) it would still be awesome. Could mark a passage you know has a trap a little bit ahead that you otherwise might forget and stumble into at a later date. I mean, take the way dungeons lock to levels now. Lets say your level 20 and you go into a 30-XX dungeon that locks at 30 then, you could mark a passage that has a trap then go off to find one of them higher level warriors in the dungeon, lead him back to the trap and out manouver him so he triggers it. Would make it possible to then, potentially, finish him off and steal all his high level armour. :ninja:

On the subject of chalk though, I vaguely recall a mod in Morrowind that was tied into necromancey. You, after collecting skulls and soul gems and stuff, could use different chalks to draw cultist/demonic symbols on the ground (only if flat) that you could then summon things onto and so forth. Was quite nifty, from what little I remember of it. ^_^

I think that'd be great. Select from a list of symbols, or bring up the Virtual Keyboard and leave messages.

Imagine making your house seem like an insane asylum 0.0
Red letters everywhere. "The cake is a lie, The cake is a lie"

This idea is actually genious!
I can imagine going into a cave and using Chalk (or something like chalk in Nirn) and going into 1st person to move it around, Props to you good sir!

This actually reminds of Demons Souls' when logged into the playstation network. You could hit select and pick from a list of sentances to place on the ground in glowing red writing (though the writing wasn't english, you hit a seperate button over such writings to examine and read them). They let players leave messages of traps, enemies ahead, treasure hidden of to the left and so forth.

One could use chalk in a similiar way, though without the multiplayer aspect. As you say, just bring up the V.keyboard and leave a message (or use a usb keyboard! ^^). Would allow us to have symbols and things as well as a list of one words, short phrases for those who can't be bothered typing things out. Things like "trap", "dragon ahead" and so on. Or make our own custom messages.

I used plates to mark passages with, any vegative matter was allocated for potions.

An interesting idea to be sure, but I don't think it'll happen sadly.
Lately, (ala Oblivion) Bethesda doesn't seem to want to go out of their way to put things in the game that their buyers actually want.

Interesting idea but far too strange and impractical to actually invest the amount of development time needed to put it in the game.