Reading about the nerfing of some lower level bosses that i thoroughly enjoyed killing (and figuring out). It dawned on me that even though there are like 10 other quests the player could do, potions he can buy, or crafting he can do to improve his chances of survival (if he cant figure out a strategy), it will STILL be nerfed so that anyone can kill it, with only the worst of the worst players having any sort of a challenge.

So essentially, instead of the older method of certain RPG's where you would enjoy gearing up and thinking about "the big fight", you can be rest assured that as long as you have a mouse, a keyboard, and two opposable thumbs, then you should be alright. So sit back, relax, and plow through endless mobs like the diablo days and just bask in the story and wonder of the massive online worl....

Ugh.....

Can we ship these games out with a mandatory manual or something? Or perhaps have a difficulty level with scaling rewards when accepting a quest? Sure the tried and true seatbelt formula of "this your level, if you want a challenge, do something of a higher level" can work, but in my experience this kind of flow always gives me gear that i have to level up several times to use *facepalm*. Should i wish i was bad at games?

I know what too hard is as well, im not oblivious to this. When irrational games set out to make 1990 mode for Bioshock Infinate they clearly stated they didnt want to make it "stupid hard" it needs to have a challenging element that can be overcome with some valid preparation and a good gamer's brain.

Heres some quotes from that game's dev team

1999 Mode is an unlockable game mode in BioShock Infinite. Activating it significantly increases the challenge of the game. According to Irrational Games creative director Ken Levine, "[Average gamers] are gonna hate this mode. That's okay - it's not for them." He also warns, "This mode is not going to feel like BioShock."

"The average gamer stops playing when they fail. The hardcoe gamer says 'That's it, I'm gonna show this game who's boss'"

Another example, its a long read, but a highly rated post on Diablo 3 forums that explains what "stupid hard" is

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4848905876

Here he states how a game can be hard in a way that forces you to do the same thing, all the time

BECAUSE the game is so hard, D3 is also 'Chess hard'. I cannot deviate from a few core defensive strategies and not get owned. I am pigeonholed into a few strats because its about survival.

So can there be a middleground? Or are the hardcoe players just going to have to kick back and get used to the new generation of "catering" to the lowest common denominator?

pvpers dont like challenge that is why everything has to be even across the board gear weapons skills stats bosses etc so that when they get their butts kicked they cant scream ur geari s better than mine etc etc

OP....I agree. I think a wide variety of quest and content difficulty, both during lvl grinding and would be ideal. I mean....some people want to push hard, and others just want to chill, while there are those that kinda like it both ways from time to time, but mostly stick to middle ground. Hopefully, future content will offer more variety.

There have always been easy games, and also hard ones, and some that are mixed >< I do not understand where this idea came from that in some past golden age, all games were ridiculously difficult.

As for the question you posed, not sure I understand why you pose it. Challenging and easy content already coexists in ESO. There are people who want it all to be one or the other, but the fact they're complaining proves that the balance has been correctly struck

Is it lowest common denominator or is it just a bigger target audience and demographic they are appealing too, and while stereotypical that might be the same thing, it's not.

The only challenging thing i got to do in ESO got made easier after the last beta.

i think the challenges are great just as they are;

i couldn't manage to get through some of the 1-person dugeons on my own, but that's okay- perfectly fine,

my brother managed to get through them at lower level than me, so that just goes; i'm not as good a player as he is

and that the challenges aren't impossible,

i completely agree that the catering and nerfing is bad...

i mean, it doesn't feel like you really accomplish anything if it's not challenging!

You are not on the PTS, I infer. Therefore you have only done low level content

Did you do any of the instanced dungeons that are available? They aren't punishing if you have a group with skillz, but if done at the intended level they pose a respectable challenge.

And then there's the PvP, which is exactly as challenging as the other side makes it.

I don't think that this game is EVER gonna include pre-endgame PvE content which is tuned to be punishing to the most skilled player, but even in the beta some material is not a cakewalk.

I watch a streamer called forcestrategygaming who has been in the PTS and is close to level 50 already. Every time i watch all i see is him 4-5 clicking his way through hordes of mobs. So dont tell me its different in the late game.

Sure he's said hes got relatively good gear, but i mean seriously, nothing even seems to touch him at this point.

......what? pvpers pvp because fighting AI isn't challenging. pvp is not a scripted event that is the same every time.

i agree those encounters should not have been nerfed

on my first character i couldnt do them at even level

mainly because i found the controls in this game "weird" to say the least

after remapping movement to the mouse and basic/power attack and block to the keyboard, i breezed through them at even level, with only 5 skill points invested in combat

so the encounters where fine as they were

what in my opinion is not fine in a MMORPG, is that you could not do them in a group if you chose to

some people group all the times, and they probably adhere to the holy trinity a bit to much, in a group like that when they get there, the dedicated healer would likely have no combat skills at all!! which would make the encounters to hard for them because they are build for group play, this is a mmorpg it should be possible to build your character for group play

if they thought it would make the encounters to easy, then scale them up for a group, you simply should not force people to solo in a mmorpg

people that want the single player challenge could still do them solo