I didn't have a problem with invisibility as I didn't regard it as OP. I would lose invisibility if I interacted with items or attacked an enemy which is 'believable'. Chameleon at 100% I had a problem with. The source of the issue I had with it was not that the game made it possible, it was, as another poster said, bad design. It was bad design because the game had zero AI to deal with 100% chameleon players in a manner that was 'believable'.

If the AI responded to an attack with a fireball from across the room by a player with 100% chameleon with something more believable than temporarily going on alert and then saying 'must have been the wind.' it would have been OK.

In Oblivion 100% chameleon represented a feature the developers 'forgot' to make the AI account for so it was an OP feature that, for many, killed the immersion/believability of the game world. It made it very obvious this was a game and that in at least one respect it was an 'unfinished' game.

My hope is that in Skyrim something has been done to address this. While gimping or capping chameleon at less than 100% is an option, I regard that as taking the easy way out. The option I prefer would be improved AI.

^ This, since with invisibility you cant do anything otherwise it would break it. Chameleon should be capped at 50% so the rest is down to your sneaking abilities... Imo i would prefer it to be very hard to get <_<

I never use invisibility because it goes away after attacking, but with 100% chameleon a guard kept attacking in place if I was very close to him. It might have been a bug. I mean, if you attack someone and you don't kill them, you get a bounty and a guard runs around the corner and asks you if you if you want to resist arrest yet. I REALLY hope they get it right in Skyrim. (This happened when I first played the game, so I'm not sure if the latest patch fixes this)

They were both pretty broken in Oblivion. As suggested Chameleon can/could be fixed by simply putting a hard cap on how much it can be stacked. I would suggest capping it at 30%. Even 50% allows you to walk right infront of people with a high sneak skill.

To the person saying Chameleon doesnt need a cap.. you are very much wrong. Due to the way Chameleon works even 50% allows you to sneak around undetected right infront of people. Chameleon reduces the range at which you can be detected by the % of the spells magnitude. So if an enemy would normally detect you at 10 meters with 50% Chameleon that is cut down to 5 meters.

Invisiblities problem was that it was just too accessible. It was nothing short of an immortality spell. The cost per duration needs drastically increasing or perhaps in Skyrim it could be reworked so that while you hold the trigger of an invisiblity spell it constantly drains your Magicka. Anything to prevent the spell from always being there for you.

Once you had 60ish Illusion skill and 60ish Willpower in Oblivion you could sustain invisiblity permanently and recast it after every action. Invisiblity was just as broken as Chameleon was. It let you escape any situation flawlessly due to how cheap the spell was. Breaking on interaction wasnt much of an issue, especially considering you could cast it, loot a chest before the cast animation finishes and then immediately enter invisibility once you leave the chest.

cooldown timer on invisie and chameleon spells. i agree with the upper cap on chameleon. when you are using chameleon or invisie you should not be able to regenerate magicka (i actually think that should be the case for all duration spells) and possibly even drain your magicka. npcs should be able to cast detect life and dispel on you if they detect you so that the other npcs in the room that dont have detect life can also see you. certain mobs should be immune to invisie like vampires and slimes. i would like to see npcs possible start swinging their weapons around in a wide arc to try and hit someone simply cause that what i would do if i suspected an invisible person......well actually i would just pick up some dirt and start tossing it around but i dont think that would be something they could code in very easily.

as for people wanting to be godlike characters i think that developers really need to stop catering to them. they have already done enough damage to games lately. if you want to play on easy mode then turn down the difficulty to easy but stop making everyone else have to mod the crap out of a game to make it even somewhat difficult. games should be hard and challenging from the get go and if someone cant keep up and adapt then thats just to bad.......they can go play animal crossing or the sims.

I say cap for chameleon, around 50%, and nothing really changed with Invisibility, as you couldn't even open a door or pick up an Item without it breaking. Animals that really on scent or hearing rather than sight would not be affected when trying to detect a invisible/chameleon character.

80% is way too high and yes you could open a door and stay in invisibility.

This. Don't cap. Adapt.

Well, I couldn't. As soon as I activated the door to open it everyone started freaking out and the guards came to me.
And Yeah, 80% is way to high, but atleast they don't just stand still once attacked like they would do at 100%

Adapt to what? Posting things before thinking is fun.

Smarter NPCs should be able to cast Detect Life to find you if they got suspicious. Some paranoid ones should use the spell all the time.

The spells available in OB required Journeyman (skill level 50) or higher in Illusion before you can cast the spell and thus enchant with it. If you were level 5 and could do this you must have spent quite a bit of time working on your illusion to do so. IF you spend that much time honing your illusion skills then you should be able to do so.

I don't think Chameleon should be capped. I do believe it should be a much costlier spell to use and much more difficult to reach 100%. In OB you needed I think 5 grand souls to enchant 5 pieces to get to 100% and Sigil Stones made it worse needing only 4 of them to get over 100. Since there will not be sigil stones in Skyrim this is a help. But I think at most a grand soul should only give maybe 10%.

Alternatively, since it is just a single player game, maybe chameleon could be gained via very high level perks and still not reach 100% easily but still possible. If someone wants to run around in 100% chameleon suit they should be able to do so. They just don't have to make it so easy as it was in OB. And with one less enchant slot (cuirass/greave combined) it will be much more difficult.

Edit: For Invisibility I think it was fine in OB, but too cheap to cast. As others have said it could possibly be improved by constantly draining magicka while invisible. And it could be kept to higher skill levels.

I don't think either spell effect is bad. It is the ease at which you can get it and bad AI that makes it overpowered in my opinion.

There better be a Reason for an Invisibility or Chameleon Spell/Object, whats the Point when you talk to People and they look you right in the Face or you Steal something from them and the Guards are like STOP CRIMINAL SCUM i mean Seriously. :facepalm:

thats what I'm talking about

anyone wants god mod just go to the CK make a ring that gives you 100health regeneration and knock yourself out :thumbsup:

+1

I agree 100%. There was nothing wrong with Chamelon nor Invisibility. As a mage they were essential, especially when you played a real mage with no armor.

There is something to be said for making difficulty settings actually mean something. Hard should be hard... not 'hard until I become a god anyway so It is no different than playing on easy'. Let people have their exploits and whatnot on easy difficulty... just don't make a mockery of 'hard'.

Don't cap my Chameleon. Its a flippen option in a single player game. Me having 100% Chameleon effects you in absolutely no [censored] way, shape, or any form known to man or being of Nirn. So stop wanting everything gimped when it is completely and irrefutably optional, meaning YOU DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT.

K? Koo, peace.

If the game is designed to actually recognize and react to 100% chameleon I will not complain... plus there should be NPCs that use it if it is available to the player as easily as it was in Oblivion.

There's a lot of repetition in the posts here, so I'll just throw my two cents in. Someone already mentioned this above somewhere...

Chameleon should make your character take on certain colours and aspects of his surroundings. Am I the only one who hated using any % of Chameleon simply because I could no longer see myself properly? I sold anything I found with Chameleon, including that Ring of Kajiiti, even though it was awesome for my stealth class character, just because I hated the effect. I think Chameleon's only effect should be your base sneak radius (the circumference around your character that will alert people) is increased, and that you should still be able to see yourself. That way, Chameleon will simply not work if you are standing in front of someone in broad daylight.

Invisibility is cool the way it is. Though I rarely used that for the same reasons I didn't use Chameleon.

Yes let everyone have a completely broken spell because you want to exploit it for easy mode. Thats right everyone, you want to use Chameleon without it making the game one big cakewalk? Tough luck because Echonite wants easy mode and he wants it all round.

I have no problems with making the NPC's aware when you go running and jumping and everything else.

There is nothing wrong with the spell itself. There is a problem with how it's implemented and the way people react to it. Fix those things, leave the spell alone and IN the game and there are no problems.

I liked the way it worked in Daggerfall. It was only effective if you stood still, you blended into your surroundings.

I think it should work like the Octo-camo suit from metal gear solid 4. Now that spells aren't using the spreadsheet number system, chameleon should work like that.

No percentage, just a stealth buff that decreases your detection radius, like Winemerchant said. (With a normal and "true" version)

Invisibilty is fine, but to add varity it should have a normal and "true" version.

There most likely won't be chameleon or invisibility. Why fix it when it is so much easier remove it? :biggrin:

I actually fear that is what will happen, due to not bothering to fix it or some design decision like: 'suddenly becoming invisible or having an 'optic camouflage' effect is not epic and heroic, its low and dishonorable, fantasy to us is a knight riding around on a horse killing stuff, yadda yadda...'

They could fix it by making it real (sounds easier than it is of course, but they could try!): enemies should still hear you moving around, if they suspect an invisible stalker is around they should freak out and be on the lookout for even the tiniest disturbance, if you bump into them even a little bit you'd better get out of the way before they start smashing everything in that spot... which you could take advantage of to search for a backstab while they are scared. Maybe make the Confidence stat their ability to 'keep their cool' around an invisible player and makes them harder to be taken by surprise.

After seeing the footage of the bandits taken down by the player's bow, I'm 99% sure none of this will happen, adding invisiblity or chameleon to sneak kills would just make sneaking a joke.

I believe they will certainly take away our 100% chameleon suit. That was a real game-breaking thing for me, but afterwards, i couldn't stop using it. I'm sure they will add some level of chameleon, but it's just not smart to leave in such a huge flaw in the game design.

Chameleon is not a "completely broken spell" but the ease with how you can get to 100% is.

I would be fine if, in order to get 100%, you would need 75 or higher in illusion to cast the appropriate spell, and 75 or higher in Alchemy to be able to make a strong enough potion, and a total of 4 or 5 items of clothing/jewlery enchanted with chameleon with grand soul gems just to reach 100%. Not just a spell or a couple of potions or a few items enchanted, but all of them combined to get to 100%. It should be left in and it should require a lot of work in multiple disciplines to get there.