I'm sure this has been discussed, but I cant seem to find one. Or more accurately, I'm too lazy to find one.


As an alchemist, it was possible to get 100% chameleon pretty much as fast as you got to journeyman and had an item that gave you some sort of chameleon, and viola, you are invincible. For me this was a big turnoff to know that I could pop a few potions whenver i wanted and have half a minute to slice and dice without a care in the world, thus you can beat anything at any level. Even without potions it isnt particuarly hard to get cham items anyway.I would like a cap, as with armor, where you cannot get 100% chameleon.

With 100% reflect damage/spell you still had to deal with the other type, since it is a lot harder to become immune to both (you need a full suit to reflect spells and then potions/spells to reflect damage). I wouldnt mind caps on theese aswell, but it's mostly chameleon I'm bothered about.


Either discuss or provide news of this in Skyrim.

I really hope theres 100% of nothing in this game. 100% damage resist or chameleon is just overpowered.

I think it should be possible. As a reward for finding and equipping all the items that will add a certain stat to 100%. Otherwise what's the point in collecting rare artifacts if they're weak not only on their own but also when put together? Being able to raise multiple things to 100% on the other hand... eh...

Not being immortal/invincible does not mean you are weak. 85% reflect damage and 85% reflect spell is NOT what I would call weak.

Besides, even if they make it possible to get 100% chameleon, it should not be as easy as it was in Oblivion.

I mean does anyone really think it is fun to chop down people who doesnt even retaliate anyway?

You shouldn't be able to have 100% of both so that wouldn't be a problem.

Maybe make them impossible to get ingame, but include them for modding purposes

This thread was mainly about chameleon, but yes if you are only able to have one at 100% and not both its not a problem.

These could be in perks because you would then need to leave something out. So for you to be able to achieve 100% in something like reflect or absorb you would need to discard something else.

So basically, what you're saying is that anything short of being UNSTOPPABLE is weak? Because 100% chameleon makes you unstoppable as it basically has the same effect as invisibility except it doesn't go away as soon as you attack an enemy or interact with any object or character. It's possible to have a middle ground between that and being completely worthless, you know, and the proper balance is somewhere in that middle ground. You should be able to make powerful characters, if you find good enough items and develop them properly, but they should still not be invincible. As I said in a thread about magic supposedly being overpowered, I do not believe it is like that, as a whole, but there are certainly certain spells that can be overpowered, chameleon being one of them, and to adress that, it should be impossible to get 100% chameleon, I'd also say that it shouldn't be possible to get 100% in resistences and reflection or absorbsion spells through magic, however, I'd still say that it should be possible to have it as inate abilities of certain races or creatures, because it's kind of odd if say, a Flame Atronach can still be harmed by fire, but being able to become completely immune to all magical attacks by using the right items seems a little overpowered.



And what would you have to discard to do it? That won't solve anything because unless other perks are equally overpowered, people who want unstoppable characters would gladly sacrifice a weaker perk to be able to do have one, and if the other perks are equally overpowered, than you're essentially giving players the option to choose between one unbalanced feature and another, which doesn't exactly solve anything...



If these forums are anything to go by, it certainly seems that way. Either that, or for some reason people just have a really strong desire to make the game boring for themselves.

100% chameleon should be a late game perk (say, for the final level up)

I think it should be possible. If someone wants the game to be easy or they want to have a bit of fun being 100% chameleon by all means let them do it. If you think it's overpowered, there's nothing forcing you to use it.

I said limit chameleon and reflects to 85% back in jan or feb, and got ripped apart by people saying it's a single player game, what do I care? I appreciate there is less need for balance compared to PvP, but surely obvious exploits not being addressed is a question of poor design. No, I don't care if someone else wants 100% chameleon or reflection, but maybe the team writing the game should.

The problem in 100% anything is not that it makes you immune, but that the AI isn′t smart enough to handle it. I will put a story of mine in a spoiler tag and then I will get to the point.


The AI of the NPC′s should allow them to think up counters to the different things we the player think up. If we go 100% Chameleon the NPC′s should flail around trying to hit you. If we go 100% physical damage reduction they should try to throw magic at you if they can or flee if they can′t (ofc only if they have the brains for it, so no zombies fleeing) and if we are immune to magic they should go for melee. And so on and so on. We as the player should not be made weaker but our enemies should be made smarter and stronger.

Yes we have talked about this before. Some said that 100% chameleon should be in because they want to be gods while others said that NPCs should be able to hear you, even when you are invisible and react to the sound they hear. I'm on the side who says they need to react to invisible foes and that not a single magical effect should make a whole skill useless.

You act like items that give large chunks of chameleon grow on trees or something. You likely had to pull up a website, scan through several different item lists, and pick out which items have the perfect properties together. Then figure out where they are and finally load up your game and hunt them down. If you're putting in that much work you deserve 100%. You basically just cheated anyway to figure out how to get 100% so there you go.

Judging by how they handled the fallout games with the sneakboy. Which was basically a 100% chameleon affect. Skyrim will have enemies reacting to sound. Even if the way they implemented it in the latest Fallout games made them a bit too attuned to the sensitive movements of your character. But that's psychic AI for ya....

I never used a stealth boy in Fo3. Rarely in FoNV. But I think they are much more balanced, but they didn't actually react to the sound in any interesting way.

i recently found a 100% resist shock ring at level 15 it was very overpowered

Getting 100% chameleon through artifacts is not an easy task, that is true. But if you instead use spells and potions you often dont even need one item with chameleon. Even so, you can get chameleon from sigil stones and there is a good amount of rings that give chameleon that arent that hard to find.


Improving AI is a really nice solution to it that I didnt think about. Another solution would be to have creatures that are able to see invisible individs. One easy way I can think of is to let them use the Detect life spell, which makes it possible to see your enemy, but makes it harder to hit them.

I actually didnt think about that. If you let there NPC's that have detect life ability/spells, and let them react to sound, sure 100% is not overpowered anymore.

Or, an infinitely better idea.

They allow for it and all of you learn self control or just don't use it. Its a single player game for [censored]s sakes, how is me having 100% anything going to effect you? It wont.

By the time for get 100 everything you SHOULD be a damn demigod. Don't dike things down just because you don't like it. It doesn't effect you because its 100% optional for you to use or not.

To the underlined above, it would have been interesting if in OB headless zombies (or undead in general) didn't actually see you but were drawn by your lifeforce where chameleon would be less effective at concealing you. I would be fine if a couple creatures in Skyrim could see thru Invisibility/chameleon and with the suggested improvments to AI for the others I think it would make Skyrim a more interesting game. I don't think it is necessary to get rid of 100% chameleon, but it should be tough to get. Like potions, with the drink limit, not getting close to 100%, but maybe with potions, spells (maybe not make them stackable for chameleon or have high magicka cost) and a few items you might be able to get there.

And I doubt there will be sigil stones in Skyrim so I don't think we will have to worry about that lending to the ease at which you could make your own 100% chameleon suits.

A 50% cap is fine heck do a 50% cap on everything, that's involved with Magic, Enchanting, Spell Resistances, Armor Defense Rating, etc. 100% in effects is way overpowering and makes it a waste of time fighting enemies.

My Mage wouldn't want Chameleon to be nerfed. She doesn't use it all the time and has no problem just not using it. When she wants it though, it's there and that shouldn't change.

Just don't use it if it bothers you and then others will still have the option. Same for all the other skills. No caps.

:tes:

Almost nothing on TES games is capped. I like it that way.

Chameleon, reflect damage/spell etc, was way way way too easy to get high in Oblivion. Especially reflect damage.

In my opinion, there should be no cap. It should just so darn hard to get constant effect reflect damage/spell/chameleon (or other such powerful abilities), that you pretty much can't get 100%. At later levels, I could find a 25% reflect damage amulet in like every third dungeon. It svcked so darn bad, to be honest.

You'd have to enchant the items yourself with the godliest soul gem and 100 in enchanting skull to be able to achieve such powers. Not by visiting every third dungeon.
It's much more restrictive, but still possible. So once you do get really good effects, you feel that you've actually earned them.

That's what I think.