Hello!

Well over the last few months I have noticed a change in modding and the modding community and it seems good to bring this to the attention of everyone here. Dont get me wrong though - Its a good change that is taking place!!!!

For those, like myself that have been around long enough to remeber the modding back in its early days there was a sense of ownership and isolation. Much like the oblivion mod forums are at the moment. People would release something. People would like it. There would be limits to how that mods resources could be used.

Over time this change in the morrowind mod forums and we saw the emergance of the "modders code" which to simplify consited of: Make every effort to contact the author. If an unssucessful attempt has been made then consult the community. Opinion normally favors using resources as long as credit is given in detail and great lengths have been undertaken to ensure that contact has been made.

Now onto moddern times, modding has streached from the whacky to the insane. There have been ground breaking achievments with MGE, MWSE and MCP. There modding forums have slowed down but the sense of a community is still there and this pleases me, i am not sure about you lot! Its happy to see a group of people with something in common sharing ideas and making them come true.

But.....

...... over the last year there has been a negative view on those that post big projects such as TC's or large landmasses or quest mods. People tend to filter in say yeah its good. But too much work.

So many large projects have fallen here with the two much work bit and the lack of people jump on the wagon to help on those large projects. This is understandable - its a common thing so we know to expect the worse. People always post - work by yourself on the project and then once progress is made people will crawl on board.

Alot of projects and resources have been lost through abandoned projects and a while back there was an attempt to change peoples views on these projects and release everything in stages as a resource so that if the author does give up the resources are still there for the torch to be passed on.

This seems to happening! For some reason alot of mods are now being worked on that were previous projects. Alot of landmasses are being released without quests etc.... and just hte physical stuff is being done. It seems that peoples modding skills are being utilised!

Instead of someone coming in and saying "this is my idea, i need help blah blah blah i can only do landscaping".... .we seem to have a few projects in the works that already had previous people that made the concept of the land. I think this is great! Instead of people ocmmiting to an entire mod they now are commited to only where their skills are.

A good example is Riller-Mosh that i have been working on. The lore, landmass and NPCs were already in place but there were bugs, lack of dialgoue and the Lore/background was fleshed out enough. So i have been working on those areas along with Kro. But similar projects have pop'd up.

I mean look at TR. TR is still being worked on, a large undertaking of a mod, and the maps that have already been released people have already started to mod them!

You may be asking yourself what is the point of this thread right about now. Well i can tell you its to bring to light the changes in modding. While there is a llot of modding out there to be done modding is changing for the good, where people are more open and willing to share ideas, more willing to commit to part of a project and then pass the torch. A better understanding of to use ones skills and to get the community involved!

Modding morrowind has evolved - it is now not just about modding morrowind but modding mods too. This shows the willing of others to work together, to help someone out and to share any work that they have previously done. There have been many times where people have refused re-use of their work but those times seem to be slipping by. There seems to be less nad less cases of this and more cases of " sure just credit where its due".

This lax atmosphere, while potentially dangerous to people "stealing/copying work", is helping many newbie modders find their ground, as many ( myself included) when they start modding either want to change something small in morrowind or mod/add too their favorite mod.

So i just want to congratualte you all, right here right now, the community has matured and there seems to be less bickering, arguments, flaming and dissagrements than there ever was.


So the question is, is the future of modding morrowind the future of modding mods? ( not pre-existing mods but projects that are started then passed on. For exmaple if i wanted to start an new project but my skills were in landscaping then i'd build the world then pass it on to a quest maker, scripter etc....)

does all this make sense? I hope i am getting accross everything in clear light.

Anyway, peace out

=MA=

Modding mods,

windows glow from Max a.k.a. ~NOBODY~
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=389

Windows Glow - Tribunal V 1.1 from colt17
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7505

Windows Glow - Bloodmoon (now with Raven Rock) from colt17
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7524

Windows Glow Texture Tweaks from Acrilix
http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7974


This is one of the mods I absolutely love. The implementation, quality and results. It was very surprising to see add-ons and tweaks from different modders.

Morrowind grass mod. Now with vurt's textures, makes this member very happy.

There are some mods which I sadly had to pass, because of small but effective bugs They may be updated in future, maybe by new modders.

A new NoM is in the works, by new modders, iirc.

I think if a modder returns 2+ years later and sees his/her mod got improved and extended, he/she would be happy instead of furious. But who knows?

and the exporter worked by Amorilia and others, that allowed to export Blender animations and working creatures to Nif format, and be used in game

Hmm, I wouldn't call this a "good" change...

The fact that some modders use existing mods as a ressource and finish them by adding their own content is a positive aspect. But I think it is a kind of sad, that a so called "community" can't get something NEW done all together. Sure people here are helpful and assist each other with small things, but nothing new and exciting gets done for Morrowind anymore.

There's a lot of potential around here, but no use made of it, cause people can't agree on a common interest in one project. Some time ago I was very upset of all this and left Morrowind for a while and spend some time in the Gothic Community and there it is like, people 99% work in teams only. 3D-modeler, dialogue writers and voice actors do OFFER their skills to the existing projects. I've seen noone who had to literarily beg for help on his/ her project. I have not the slightest clue how to mod Gothic and the Gothic CS is way less easy and comfortable than Bethesda's one. That's the only reason I didn't stay.

If you ask me modding Morrowind these days is like decorating a dead corpse. Add this, replace that, do some new texture here, place a new house there...

If I could I'd really love to play Nero and burn all the stuff down, so modding would have to begin from scratch again, with some new and fresh ideas!!!


TheDaywalker :rock:

I see what your saying DW,

just the problem with Nero was, while the city burnt to the ground he built himself a palace of gold and filled with riches. Would you rather create something grand and wonderful but at the same time ignore those around you, ignore whats already been done and refuse to help while you built your wonderous palace? The price is of course that Nero lost all respect while his people suffered. But he was just an ass anyway

My point is DW, Change is happening. Its not just "old mods" either, which you seem to think it is, I am talking about the willingness of people to participate in a project but not commit to the entire project. Its great that a project is shared in the community rather than just let go. While its no a case of everyone jumping on the bandwagon and wanting to help its a slow process but its getting there. There is a willingness to help thats clawing its way back to surface.

And i see what you mean about new and exciting. Its why i am working on an oblivion realm mod - as while similar things have been done before in mw, theres not a mod out there that explors the full potential it could have.

Its just a matter of time, but the community is getting there. I remebered when you left DW and that was a time gone by now. The community is vastly diffrent from then.

Isn't that how it's always been? Not just with Morrowind, it's like this with Oblivion as well, though there are some interesting thing's going on over at the Oblivion community with mods like Playable Goblins.

I'm hopeful, yet pessimistic about it in the long run.

On the one hand, there have been an amazing number of fresh break-throughs, such as the MCP, MGE, Vality's grass, and a host of other things that few, if any of us, ever thought would be possible, much less that we'd see them in such nicely done form this quickly. There are massive and ambitious projects still being worked on, in an organized manner (although some more organized than others) by impressively competent people, and some of them (such as TR) are showing fantastic "interim" results. Modders seem to be more willing than ever to lend advice, offer bits and pieces of code, textures, meshes, etc., or allow further work by others on their older mods, with a wonderful sense of community and a feeling that the love of the game supercedes all of the petty bickering and possessiveness that mankind is so well noted for.

It makes me wonder, though, if the willingness to "turn over" what's normally considered "intellectual property" isn't the result of the game gradually fading into obscurity. People may be willing to cooperate, partly because their "stake" in it isn't worth what it used to. At this point, it's stating to feel almost like "we'd better all start rowing this boat NOW, because we're starting to sink.....

My suspicion is that the release of the next TES game will either re-make or break the MW community. If the game is enjoyable, immersive, moddable, and well thought out, the exodus from here to TESV could put the final nail in the coffin of the beloved old "classic". If it turns out to be another Oblivion, then the rapid return of those disillusioned with it, along with new blood from those looking for the "roots" of the series, should put this community back on its feet for another few years, at the very least.

Oh i dont think the MW community is failing. The MW community will be around for a long time yet. I cant see the next TES game killing the MW modding community. Yes its slowed down buts its got life in it still

Yeah, it's the same as it ever was, that's exactly what's tiring me!!!

Check out Oblivion TC "Nehrim" comming out soon. There a single german modder group has done a project, which a Morrowind community should be ashamed of not to have been able to do something similar for 8 years!!! This is what I call modding and what I was wishing for since I joined this community!!! I hate to always have to be the bad guy here, but I still can't see the awesomness of this community. Maybe the next 8 years will bring a change!!!


TheDaywalker :rock:

Well, If TESV does happen to be as good as Morrowind, then I don't think I'd really have a problem moving on to it. That doesn't mean that I'll forget Morrowind, I'd still play it along with Oblivion, I'm just saying that I can't stick with just Morrowind forever.

The only way we'll know is when TESV does come out

EDIT: @ TheDaywalker, well, I think that differences in the engine can actually account for that. As far as I know Morrowind's scripting engine is quite...Primitive, and it doesn't even support separate world-spaces like Oblivion, which is why no-one has done a mod like Nehrim.

I'm sorry but that sounds horrendous to me. The Elder Scroll's modding community is anarchic and it's one of the things I love the most about it. I'm willing to sacrifice giganto-mega-mods for quirky, individual vision any day.

I don't think any new TES game will extinguish the Morrowind torch any time soon, perhaps it will rain and cause the torch to dim, but there will, for a long time yet, be fresh oil to keep it burning.

Also, morrowind has a larger "diehard" fanbase than just about any game I've ever seen, and it still has plenty of active forums, from the Open Morrowind and House Fliggerty forums, to these here, and I haven't logged on once in the past 2 years and haven't seen at least one new or at least responded to topic.

Will this game die? Not before I do.

TDW, tbh, I really don't like TCs... So I'm hoping that modders don't spend their time on one, but on projects like OpenMW, Unique Landscapes, LGNPC, quest mods, replacers, and province mods, to make this game even better.
The main reason I think TCs aren't successful, is because most modders here mod Morrowind because they love Morrowind and TES, not because it's a great engine for creating their own game (it really isn't).

That's the idea I get at least. There are better games to make TCs for, I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of in this community.

@MA: I agree, though I'm more grateful to the people who release the resources. All the sharing in this community gives it a real friendly atmosphere.

@Pseron Wyrd: Maybe working in teams is not what most people here like to do, but those guys in the Gothic community at least get their projects finished. Here in MW community you nearly have to do everything on your own and that svcks. You're an awesome exterior builder, but you have no clue how to do dialogues, well bad luck. You will never finish your mod, if not accidently someone decides to give you a helping hand.

@Dirnae: If game industry had been thinking that way, we all may be modding pac man or donkey kong these days. Bethesda has made all the work for us and we're just moving stuff around. That doesn't really satisfy me much. I tend to rather create something new from my own imagination than modding something alraedy existing to death. I don't play Morrowind anymore, because I know every single stone in Vvardenfall and played the mainquest a dozen times. It is absolutely boring and no texture replacer and no new armor gear can change that. I want to step into a whole new world and be surprised by new environment, new NPCs and a new main quest. That's why I love TCs!!!


TheDaywalker :rock:

Why not play another game then?
EDIT: Hmm, come to think of it, Daywalker, have you thought about helping out with Tamriel Rebuilt? You are amazing with models, and I'm sure they could use a talent like yours. Just a suggestion.

I'd have to agree with MA on this one. I originally joined this forum in 2003 (under the name DarQspire) but didn't like all the bickering that was going on at the time (much like the Oblivion forums are now). I'm glad to see all the very talented people on these forums sharing their knowledge and skill. To most of you I'm still a noob, but I've been playing and modding morrowind since 2003. I didn't release anything until recently though. I would have to say that morrowind will not die because of any new game, be it TESV or anything else, because morrowind is the only game I've ever found that is truly open ended. No other game allows you to do whatever you want, whenever you want. The morrowind modding community may shrink, but there will still be a few hardcoe fans (myself included) who will carry the torch for many years to come. There are still many new players and modders coming into the the mix whether they came from oblivion or just found out about the game. Morrowind is the greatest CRPG ever created and will stay that way for a very long time unless someone manages to create a new game that copies the the good things about morrowind (open ended, huge world to explore) without including the bad things (limited scripting, not so good physics) in the game. Morrowind is by far the easiest game to mod and that makes for a long, long life in the gaming community.

I agree,

I've bought Arena in 1995 and since then I'm a fan of the Elder Scrolls....many people play Daggerfall these days and it's even older than Morrowind...I've played Oblivion and Fallout 3, but I never was interested in modding it.

Also a release of TES V will bring new players to Morrowind after they played the game. If I play the fifth part of a story I also wanna play part 1-4

These days I play Resident Evil 5, but that don't make me less interested in TES3: Morrowind

LOL.

I still have the original Arena, Daggerfal, and Redguard discs! I've played them for years. I actually have an old machine that I keep working so that I can play all my old (read ancient) games on. My girlfriend would love it if I got rid of it ( and all the partial machines I use for parts to keep it working ) but I refuse to let "progress" in computers keep me from playing the games I've loved for so long. I was playing D&D, AD&D, I.C.E. and other RPGs since before computers were even around. I have over 300 PC games, 160 X-Box games, 80 PS2 games, and I even have GBA and DS games so I can play "on the road". I'm an "oldschool" gamer from WAY back and I really love that morrowind is still being modded and played.

Well, sometimes things can happen in real life where a person might not mod for 2 years, and then eventually come back.

I remember when Quentin Priek came back for a little bit. Almost no one even noticed. But I had some fun conversations with him. Great modder, his work was revolutionary and opened up new creature modeling for many modders.
He always had his work as modder resources.

BUT, if LadyE and Proudfoot returned and found that someone had converted their Dragon's Breech work for Oblivion, after they said it could not be, or found that someone had completely revamped their classic TC, ouch! They would be gone again very fast.

Some modders might not mind if their work was extended and "improved". Others would be most angry, and would have a right to be so.

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Me, I ask at the time modders are still around about usage OKs. Got hundreds and hundreds of them from modders who hadn't even considered that area. Best way to do it I think.
And some modders actually are still available. Just gotta take the time to contact them and give them time to respond.

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LOL, and one of the main rules I have about when my hubby builds me a new computer with a new operating system is this:

IT MUST BE ABLE TO RUN MORROWND.

You lucky one :wavey:
I would love to have my old machine that I had 15 Years ago, but unfortunally I havn't any old PC. I'm looking for an old MS-Dos computer including it's original Screen from time to time, but less sucessful.

I use emulators instead, but it's only a second hand feeling playing Arena on DOS-Box.

i really enjoy working on personal projects such as the clothing im doing or the simple requests i get once in a while. but id also drop everything and do another bug check next time i get droped a new esp for yesterbreeze that im helping with as well. its just a matter of picking a project thats been outlined well. yesterbreeze is huge. yet before he even announced it he already had most of the land already bulit had an entire outline and a very well thought out lore and had a dirrection he was going. so it was more then just the hey i have this idea here's sorrta what i have in mind if you can help message me. no offence to the ppl who post those .but modding really is a commitment of time . and when you work months on a project just to see nothing ever become of it its disheartning. but to me even if its something as simple as an outfit i do my self. or help with a larger project the accomplishment is still the same.

and on another note when it comes to large mods and land masses. modders now have to weigh in the TR factor i had thought at one time id release my mod when its done but instead im just releasing bits and pieces for ppl to do what they want with. just for the simple fact ive been aruond long enoough to read the plethera of forum post about ppl planning mods and the countless posts complaining about placement and or incompatabilities that may occur with other mods they have. now some would say dont let something like that discourage one from releasing a project but... it does. at least for me.
its not the fact that available map area is decreasing rapidly or the mods that are occuping said map space. its the folks who do the complaining that are the deturant. if i was to right now say my mod is a huge continent off the east coast which allows one to roam threw the lands covered in xena . not only would i get the cant you move it somewhere else so its not conflicting comments. but id also more then likely get all of the lore folks putting in their 2 cents as well. i have even seen folks recieve less then positive raitings due to these issues. reguardless if its clean and bug free.

@TDW- I think it ultimately depends on one's personality. I know people who can only read a book or watch a movie once because then they know what happens and they don't need to revisit it. Personally, I've watched Sherlock Holmes probably about six times in the short time it's been out (three times in theaters, and then once I got it on DVD), with a seventh coming up this Saturday, because I love the setting, story, characters, and the original book series as well. Same goes for The Last Wish (upon which the video game The Witcher was based). I know it almost word for word, cover to cover, but I can read it over and over again because it's so well put together. Personally, I agree with Dirnae. There are so many fantasy RPGs out there that I don't need or want Morrowind to be a different game. I bought Morrowind so I could play Morrowind, not Dragon Age or Oblivion or Gothic.

Yep I have a really neat slingshot that was released as a quickie - I loved it





I tend to agree with Dirnae - I understand why some modders want to create their own vision using the CS - however that's their own vision - I've already invested hundreds of hours playing in the TES universe and despite its buggy and erratic nature with the MW engine I'll put up with that to read another LGNPC mod or just enjoy watching LCOV in action. I personally don't think MW is a great engine for building a new game in especially as you can get unreal 3 for free.

To me the community is not about jumping in and working on another better bodies mod or a Pandora world - it's about when you have a problem and post a question on the CS forum and some modder from way back when jumps on and says try doing this - or when someone posts a screenshot of what they're up to and gets a whole bunch of encouragement to keep going - sometimes I've needed a single item for a quest - like a naginata or a quarterstaff and have been very grateful when it's been whipped up for me so quickly -

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've experienced community spirit here without the need for everyone working on the same project.

I agree with Dirnae and Illuminel. I mod Morrowind because I love the setting, the characters and the lore. If I wanted to create my own game, I would never in a million years use the outdated Morrowind engine in this day and age.

The impression I tend to get from most of the inexperienced modders who come in and say, "Hi, I'm creating a TC, but I need help with EVERYTHING, and have only a vague idea of what I want to do and haven't even opened the CS yet. Please PM me if you want to do all the work for me!" is that they have decided to use the Morrowind engine because they think the CS tools are EASY, not because it actually suits the type of game they have in mind. If you are trying to start a TC with that attitude, you have already failed, and these people vanish in the blink of an eye once they realize they can't recruit a bunch of experienced people to do all the work for them. This is the only reason I would come down on a TC thread (this goes double if the person has named themselves "so-and-so productions" before ever producing anything of any kind). If the modder(s) working on a TC have some great work to show, then more power to them. I think what they're doing is great.

Maybe the main problem is that this community has a completely different sight of modding than I have. I have invested so much time in learning 3d modeling, photoshop, nifskope and so on and I don't want to waste that on small things. At the moment I'm only compromising, but I know I want more than that and I can do more than that!!! This community (with a few exceptions) feels so tired and slow paced to me, like granny and grandpa on a sunday's stroll in the park.

Everything here is awesome and great, people love eachother, birds are singing in the trees and butterflies circle over meadows of green grass.... OMG :blink:


TheDaywalker :rock: