Magically changing gender? No thanks. Magically changing race? No thanks to that too..

But changing hearstyle without magic, yay! The face should be tweakable, as some might realize their character doesn't look smart in a particular armor and want to tweak their face and body shape a bit, but only a small portion from what it was.

"Hello! I'm Dumag gro-Bonk. Best and prettiest smith in town." :rofl:

Aw phooey...looked for a minute there like we were going to be treated to an episode of "Lore Warriors: Beyond Thunderdome."

"Two lawyers enter- one lawyer leaves! Two lawyers enter- one lawyer leaves!"

Ah well.

Yeah, normally I would step into the Thunderdome for a lore fight but I'm tired of having to hi-jack someone elses thread to do so and then get scolded by mods hehe. I just decided to step away from it.

I'm not so sure "I put so much time into this guy, might as well finish so I can start over with something aesthetically pleasing" is the type of replay value we're looking for. I rather like it when my replay value stems from the game just being that damn good.

And once again, someone misunderstands what I say....

The point is, if you have played hundreds of hours on a person and you really want something that looks different, start another character. Hundreds of hours on one character is plenty of time to finish all the content in the game. This isn't an MMO where you are stuck with your character forever and thus you want to be able to change the look of the character because you will always have new content to keep you busy so you won't need a new character. This is a singleplayer game so it has finite content and thus if you've already finished all the content and you want a different looking character, instead of inexplicably transforming your character and taking development time out of the rest of the game to be able to change your character at any time, you can just start a new character which would be fun to do.

I am going to have to go with just the hair. Though being able to change body and face might be nice later though not necessary. Definite no to the race part

Yes on both (hair and appearance), cosmetic surgery has been performed ever since the ancient Egyptians and probably earlier. Not to mention we have Magic. Ancient Egyptians loved nose jobs apparantly.

Yes to hair and beard, and yes to face, because I bet the lightning conditions of the face menu will svck again, so I most likely want to alter that a little midgame.

And I don't want to spend an hour to finish my character to find out that I don't like his lips seven hours later. (Well, I can fix that on PC, but how about our console brothers and sisters?)

And no to race and gender alteration, because.... Well, it might be hard to keep things consistent. And one thing about facial modifying, I want to add scars later on the game.

Another good reason.

Barbers yes, plastic surgeons no.

There are console commands for that.

We're not all on a PC. Yes to cosmetic surgeons.

And I think it is more tiring to do a proper face on consoles (gamepad is bad with sliders), so I bet many people will get frustrated and skip most of the facial creation on consoles. Everyone is eager to get into the game!

And then they regret it because they can't slightly alter their eyebrowns, only because we mean PCers have console commands... Make sense.

As a lore explanation, there is Magic, so that should be enough for most facial modifying. Changing gender and race would be hard to explain with that, though. "Yeah, everyone pretty much forgot that you used to be an orc and a male."

Do you want to mod the game? Play it on PC.
Do you want to cheat/debug? Play it on PC.

It's always been like this, and I don't want this ingame fanservice to ruin immersion both on PC and consoles.

And that's a consequence they can live with. That's what TES is all about, consequences. And as for a lore explanation, there is no magic in the lore that any person can do to change their face permanently. Just because its "magic" doesn't mean it doesn't have limitations. Even fantasy worlds have rules.

LOL that wouldn't break immersion at all, like I said previously, the ancients use to do cosmetic surgery. As long as you have an anesthetic and clean utensils, you can perform it. Again, its not about 'rushing through creation', its about not having an adequate light source for creation etc. We certainly didnt have one in Oblivion or New Vegas. I think people are saying no because they think cosmetic surgery is something new, its not.

TES is about consequences? Honestly, I would put an emote here, but that is not my style.

Quite lame consequences: because one didn't want to spend the first hour with the game flapping through menus, he/she is forced to play with character that has unpleasant looking face.

I would be sad with such irrelevant consequences, where such bother can be explained with magic that is already in the game.

As a more serious note, Fallout 3 had facial alteration, and that makes way less sense there than in a world of high magic, so I am quite confident there will be some late game facial alteration. Even if someone thinks people have to live with these "consequences".

And about it not being in lore, how they can't make up lore for that? "Someday on these 200 years, some thought to use their healing magic to alter their appearance."

Tell me, is that too far fetched?

Oh, The connection of the ancient Egyptians and Tamriel.
Please continue, Mr. Teacher

Therefor its not out of the question. Plus a lot of other early civilizations had it, so yes. Since these are basically the same humans (Nords and imperials) that you would find on Earth, there is a possibility that they would know how to do that. Most people under estimate the ability of ancient man and Tamriel's denizens are far from ancient.

Why? Fallout 3 is more of a modern time. Once again I'll reiterate, there is nowhere in the lore that people can magically change their looks permanently by magic, none. The only people that could change their bodies are Gods and Ayleids and Ayleids we only know of as shapeshifting into animals. This feature just seems like another "I was too lazy to make my character in detail and when I realized that I didn't like the character I only spent 10 sec making I should set back the entire game development!" The point of character customization at the beginning is for you to actually customize the character. If your too lazy to do it at the beginning and then think it should be available later in the game where it doesn't make any sense existing, then you don't deserve to be able to change your face.

Also, I'll reiterate again. We shouldn't warp the lore so that we can fit in some tiny, useless feature. The game should be molded to the lore not the other way around. People seem to think that 200 years makes such a big difference. The only period in time were 200 years made a significant difference was in the last 200 years. That is the only time in human history that 200 years had a significant effect, so "it being 200 years later" is not a good reason for something magically happening that hadn't happened in millenia since the dawn era.

Therefore it still makes no sense.



Yeah and according to Todd Howard, you'll only have to choose your characters race/appearance at the start of the game. (source: podcast)
If you don't like it, you can restart the game and make a new one. Like five minutes lost.

Umm, you already could do this in in Morrowind with a console command "enableracemenu".
Then about the shops where you could change your appearance... ONLY hair and ONLY IF NPCs use it too, shop with only one customer - I dont think so.

Well then, we can solve this entire problem with ease:

Hey devs! Makeup-table lighting in the character creator!


Problem solved.

Yet, thats what we want, no joke. Better lighting.


Uh, it makes perfect sense.


That's not really why we want it, plus read the earlier posts, its capable to do without magic. Like magic needs a precedent though. :rolleyes:

I have to say, I don't get why you guys are against it. The lore states that only few being could change their appearance completely, but does it also say that being can't have their appearance changed by some other means, for example, some one mutilates other person with a mace? Will the person look the same after that? Honestly, I have no idea. If so, then I agree with you, there should be no facial alteration.

But if yes, people can be mutilated (broken noses, jaws, such things) permanently, thinking facial surgery as a form of facial mutilation might help with the lore concerns.

And forcing people to live with completely visual choices is just petty. But if there is already some lore against such things, changing that shouldn't be done, because after that, everything could be changed to make game more "friendly".

EDIT: Well, a lightning table would help a lot too.

(And, I will be changing my characters look with console commands, if there won't such option in game. Because I svck with making proper looking characters. And I want add scars later on. And maybe make the character a bit older looking because he is stressed out with all this saving world thing.)

Not sure what was wrong with the lighting in previous character creations.



....Really? Ok, when your in character creation and making fine tuned adjustments to your characters face, you can be beating yourself in the face with a mace to change it. "Am I pretty yet!?!" *eye ball hanging from the socket*