So, is FOOL going to be a classless levelling system, or will there be a class system and talent tree type deal going on? The reason I ask is the response to this will necessarily heavily alter the ideas I put forth from here on out. And there will be many. Many many.

I would hope it would be a classless skill system, much like the Fallout game canon or like the original implementation of Star Wars Galaxies.

I'm not sure but I think Chris mentioned something about using the old system, but it could be me and my incorrect memory.

They wouldn't be able to use any system from the single player games for an MMO. It just wouldn't make any sense. You'd have people running around with maxed abilties within the first day. It would have to be constructed with this in mind. I have ideas, of course, but would like to know where it's at prior to me posting several hundred pages of ideas, charts, and back-of-the-envelope structure trees and the like.

huh? that would depend on how fast you level, how many points you get /level etc etc.

Look at fonline 2238, old fallout lvlsystem and it took me quite some time to get to lvl21, maybe 2 skills at 200.ish% (NOT max) and one at 150 something maybe, the other skills pretty untouched. System could be modified so you can obtain a much higher level, but decrease the points/lvl. Could do many things with the that lvl system to make it balanced.

Something I was thinking about was what if they didn't give access to every single skill similarly to UO? Meaning you have seven skills or so from the very beginning and you are locked out from the others. Sooooo lets say you chose to get big guns small guns and first aid you now cannot upgrade your melee or unarmed skills.

I think this could also be modified to be since you chose big guns, small guns, etc you now instead have a X% bonus with that weapon or skill but now you are not locked out of others. This way you can specialize your characters creating a slight bit more originality or this could be used to create a character for a specific purpose such as a high damage dealer, repair guy, or a stealth type up and beyond what the system allows you in FO1 and 2 for example

However, this is just a way to mix and match easier without selecting a preset archetype such as a soldier or assassin.

The current single player fallout skillsystem is in my opinion a little to dynamic. If that was to be copied directly into an mmo it would have way too much room for error where you could screw up your build. To compensate for this you could add respecs, but this would open up for another problem with ppl respeccing often to handle say a speech or a science challenge and then respec back to gun skill to do the next mission.

I guess it can be streamlined in the form of clever game design like you so often see a terminal that opens a locked door and you can choose wich skill you want to use.

I am all for a classless system tho as im a RPG fanatic from the good old pen and paper dnd. But an mmo needs to prepare for the casual gamers with no rpg experiense if it wants to grow big and if so it seems the current standard is to streamline character development into classes, or to seperate combat and non combat skills into two different systems completely.

Another option is the one i prefer where you level up your skills as you use them. If you mostly prefer to pick the lock instead of hacking the terminal then lockpicking would develop while science would be at a standstill. At level up you could perhaps give perks and not skillups. Place a cap on total skill level so that players actually have to choose how they solve problems. In later game you could then easily remove options when facing encounters (no terminal at the door anymore) and that way you would inderectly force players to group up if they want to get to all the places in the quest area.

IMO, the old system is fine for an MMO. Yes, the leveling may be a bit fast, but IMO, levels should be the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. You should play a game because it's fun, not because you want to reach max level. Just about every MMO on the market screws this up, IMO. The standard for MMOs seems to be to offer the promise of "fun" at max level+gear which takes dozens if not hundreds of hours to obtain, the entire time you're essentially paying to work towards the point you want to actually play.

Yes, some players would sink all thier points into combat skills to essentially tear apart other players in PvP, but that can easily be balanced. For example, player A did something to anger player B, player B has all his combat skills maxed out and goes to pay a visit to player A's house to rob him blind. When player B reaches player A's house there's a small problem however... the door is locked and player B has no way to open it.

This

How to obtain this is the million dollar question tho.

I'm a little curious as to how they will implement character "spells" tho. Traditionally this is not included in the fallout games. Maybe choose a new spell related to the skill at every 10 ranks. Mayby give out a new spell like you choose perks, with skill snd special requirements at level ups, that would be kinda cool and open up ALOT of min maxing possebilities ( <3 min - maxing)

Spells in FO? PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NO!!!

Although i do hope they throw John Sullivan in, with a similar conversation to what was in FO2, along with perhaps a quest which is little more than a time waster of some sort.

oh sorry I did not express myself propertly there.

As in "spells" i mean klickable skills on your skillbar. Used the term since "skills" is referred to things as lockpick / science / big guns and so on.

Ah "Abilities", thats the word.

I knew what you meant .

The only way i'd be for this in a FO game is if it was used for the targeted shot system, and even then i'm still iffy on it. It would really depend on the type of combat system gamesas has planned. If it's the traditional MMO system, they would probably have to be used to replace the targeted shot option in the turn based FO1+2. But if they use more of a FPS/TPS system, i don't think it would work.

I am, however, completely against having abilities that aren't an adaptation from the targeted shot system.

well vats (in the form of target fire) can get integrated, but still I defenetly think we absolutely need abilities.

MMO's where there are a minimal amount of abilities have a tendency to get very boring very fast. Maybe thats a personal preference tho.

If you dont have abilities then what will you have to make combat engaging? I certanly don't want to lockpick my enemy to death. (unless shes a woman wearing a chastity belt and I'm not trying to kill her)
I also don't want to autofire / runaway from melee enemies either.

I do want to 1 shot head vats target fire them to death.

In your typical MMO, there are only 8 different abilities, everything else is just a variation: damage at range, AOE damage at range, close/melee damage, AOE close/melee damage, heal at range, AOE heal at range, close/melee heal, and AOE close/melee heal. Everything else is pretty much dressing the abilities up and giving them a different name. Being that most MMOs are class based, you can cut that number in half, and in most cases down to 1/3, for 2-3 different abilities that are accessable to an individual character. Even if you toss buffs/debuffs in the mix, you end up with 3-6 different abilities with 20+ different names, but in the end they're the same as the basic 3-6.

In your traditional MMO, you need a "multitude" of abilities because combat is reduced to pressing number keys and perhaps moving around a bit, they just toss in cooldown to make it seem more like you're gaining something new, instead of the same thing with a new name. I'm hoping FOOL doesn't go this route, and offers more of an action based combat scene. Although turn-based, the combat in FO1+2 could be very action passed for a game of that time. You could seek cover after firing, switch weapons to fit the circumstance (sniper rifles for long range, shotgun for close was one of my favorit combos), switch out to different weapons in your inv (hand grenade anyone?), choose your targets, and avoid shooting/being shot by your party members in the back.