Dear Forumites and fellow Lurkers! I beg of you to read of all of this and stick with me. I have tried to make the idea and rant an enjoyable experience. It was getting quite long so I trimmed a bit and thus apologise if it seems rushed in places and not all too informative.

Earlier today I had an idea in the bath, clearly the birthplace of all great ideas. I was pondering the removal of the class system and how I felt this would effect the roleplay elements I enforce on my character. Choosing that class is a set path to the formation of your PC and was a huge step in forming his or hers personality, role and choices with in the game world. It was my raison d'etre and it had been taken away from me in an instant.

But! As I am a reasonable and calm man I did not rage and cause furious tidal waves within my bathtub. I did not crush the little bubble islands that lay about me like some crazed god seeking retribution. No. Instead I set about thinking what else I could do to shape my character and one way I decided was all in the name, and thus I looked to Fable.

Now I know many of you are not fond of Fable. I find it enjoyable but I can't for the life of me roleplay in it. But there is one aspect that would lend well to the removal of classes in Skyrim, that my friends is Fables "Hero Titles". Put simply, because I don't half rabbit on. In Fable you could purchase from a Vendor a Title, a sort of deed for your name. At the start of the game you often get mocked and called Chicken Chaser yet after visiting a Title Vendor you could choose from a list of names for example; Maleficus, Assassin, Liberator, Druid, Ranger and more. From then on in when you approached an NPC they would call you by your chosen title. This was great as NPC's could refer to you personally and it represented your ethos. Now some of those titles are too simple for my liking but it is easy enough to adapt them.

Say for instance my character is a High Elf practiced in the arcane. I have dodgy eyebrows and facial hair to boot. I decide I would rather play an evil character so I name him Ming the Merciless. But I hit a stumbling block, there is a character limit, haven't you learnt anything Bethesda you fools! So for now he is just Ming.

Great I in no way feel merciless being called plain old Ming. However during the tutorial what skills I use are once again noted and I am asked if I am an Assassin! Why no of course not! But by any chance are you related to a fellow named Baurus? So I instead I select a different title from a list. I choose Mage and now next to my name in the stats screen is my chosen title. Ming the Mage. I like my title so I keep it and continue adventuring meeting many characters who greet me in conversation by my title of Mage.

But disaster strikes, during a quest I'm betrayed by a friend and after a long battle I choose to spare his life and thus I am granted the new title of Ming the Merciful! I can choose to keep this title or instead I can abondon it and carry on playing how I want unlocking more titles through actions and training which I can use to further my role playing experience.

I hope a system like this has made it in, or if not If it can be modded but that would lose some of the appeal, having an NPC actually call me a title instead of generic Dragonborn all the time would be great because I may not want to be the Dragonborn as I have abondoned the main quest and let the world rot. So thank you very much for reading and what do you guys think?

-Edit- I accidentally hit enter when typing the title and had to some quick Ninja work. Also I added a poll as it tends to attract more views and gets a better picture on your views.

I stop reading after I read high elf... High elf scum...

But seriously, I like the title idea. I would like to be called something that reflexs my character by the locals.

I really only used the High Elf so I could mock them. Always wondered if there was a spell to remove their heads from their rectum.

My Fable character's title was "arseface". I used that title throughout the whole game because I thought it was hilarious... Arseface, the mighty warrior. :disguise:

While I do not mind removal of the classes as a gameplay mechanic, removal them as a role playing element did bother me, I like to be able to "stat my intention" of playing the character one way or another. And titles would be great for that! So I wholly support the idea.

P.S. And I wholly disprove of the mockery of Altmer - my favorite race.

That could be interesting., but I thought it got really annoying in fable because of how many times you would hear your title just walking through a town...


On the subject of classes generally I would bet a hefty sum of money that there will be perks with names like Spellsword and Assassin that give you benefits to those sorts of thing.

[censored] genuis my friend. I too like fable ( the first one mainly) but this is a fantastic idea. This way we are permantently tied to our class but still feel the idea that we are something. Also it would make the characters more interactive. But if everyone knows your an assassin your not really an assassin are you?

Not necessary - if you are a Morag Tong assassin people know you and it's not a problem - in Morrowind being a member of Morag Tong is a honorable and fully legal profession as is assassination in clan wars and politics. When so may people would rather die than compromise on their believes politics just doest work without the assassins I guess So it depends on what kind of assassin you are.

In the case of things like this if there are certain guilds or factions a flag could be checked so members would call you by an appropriate title where as non members would instead use a placeholder maybe relating to a personlaity trait associated with your profession, an Assassin for instance would be cautious, wary, secretive etc or they could remark on what clothes you are wearing. As Todd Howard has said your always being watched for your play style so these checks could be done pretty easily.

-Edit- I understand this is sort of like those annoying skill based remarks people would spout in Oblvion but it won't be as annoying as they just use it when starting a conversation not every time you walk past.

It could be done in three ways:

1. A pull-down menu where you choose whatever you like to be called at any time.
2. Based solely on your actions and which factions you belong to.
3. A system like in The Last Remnant where your title changes automatically based on which skills you use the most. (f.e. if you use a sword and harmful magic, you're a Mysticknight. If you then switch to healing magic your title soon changes to Paladin)

If it were to truly work immersively it would indeed need to be a hybird system of all the ideas. Choice, actions and skills. The more I think of it the more I wish something like this is in the game. Only 293 days till we find out.

I don't understand this obsession with classes at all and don't see how it could prevent you from playing like whatever class you decide you want your character to be.
A battlemage named Joe that no one calls a battlemage is still a battlemage. I think RPG players have got a kind of collection of RPG standards that are just expected but aren't actually important to the gaming experience at all and aren't what makes an RPG an RPG, and they're just overreacting to change which many people just happen to do naturally.

I wouldn't mind if you could obtain/choose various titles though, but I don't think they should bother trying to voice act them all out though, that's tons of dialogue for a very minor feature. Just have an optional title spot in character creation, that you can change at any time in game as well.



I don't care what I do, if NPCs start calling me a paladin heads are going to roll.

Not sure how all this insistence on acknowledgment of one's class aids immersion, to be honest. To me immersion is feeling as if the game is real and you're really in it- and imagining walking down the street and having strangers go "Hi, computer programmer!" is jarring at best. Think about it: "Greetings, cashier!" "Hello, auto mechanic!" "Hi there, janitor!" Uh, yeah...that might work out in the red-light district, where everyone who doesn't work there would be "Hi, john!" :blink:

I'd think the most immersive thing would be for them to call you by name, some generic honorific ("Hello, sera" or "Greetings, stranger."), or at best race- "Greetings, Dunmer"- but even that last one doesn't work for me in the "imagine it happening outside your front door" test. At best awkward, at worst somebody trying to start a fight.

"Hello, %playername%" works fine for me. :shrug:

We're a very long way from software that could create audio for that without sounding like a bad DJ chop. :blink:

That's an entirely different issue, or non-issue in my case as I'm one of those who feels voicing everything = wasted time since I read two to three times as fast as the voice actors and skip past their plodding performances anyway. :shrug:

This problem can be solved by what I have suggested in http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1149601-clanguild-insignia thread.

When you gain ranks in local guild, and get to higher ranks, depending on the importance of the guilds, factions or clans, you get the title of that faction's rank title attached to your name.

The fellow faction member's always would call you by your rank in their faction, but other people would call you by your most important faction rank known to the local, or by the guild insignia that you have chosen to wear visibly on your character.

That would solve the problem with titles.

I think SOMETHING has to step up where classes were eliminated. But titles alone don't cut it by a long shot.

I will desperately NEED something that says "You're an archer", some sort of drawing for my character or badge or something. I just wish the game was able to determine what i am according to my skills and style of gameplay and cry it LOUD!