Yet you defend Fallout 3's most egregious flaw, such as it's writing which is subject to opprobrium from many of Bethesda's own fans...

Woah, slow down there mister.

Never said it was better, said both were equally bad.

Mostly because all of them use arguments that try to ignore the fact that
A. Fallout has always had [censored] writing
B. It's [censored] writing stems from the universe's basis in the rather idiotically comical 1950's world of tomorrow ideals and scif-fi b-movie cliches.

I mean did we forget that the Master can basically made to commit suicide because he didn't know his perfect super men couldn't reproduce, when any and all logic dictates he would have found that out years ago when he tired to get two of them to mate?

Or just The Enclave in general, who fulfilled literally every bad "secret shadow government" cliche by the book in Fallout 2 with no originally whatsoever?

The thing that made OWB so much better then anything else in NV was because it was so utterly dog[censored] writing wise, and just rolled with it and embraced the logical stupidity of its own universe's setting.

That's just as bad as saying fallout 3 is superior

This is a perfect illustration of self-serving motivated reasoning.

Fallout 3's writing is bad because Fallout has always had bad writing, Fallout 3 has bad writing because of it's universe (what tripe) let's all laugh at the master's capitulation while we ignore that John Henry Eden commits the same fatuity because he was told to...

Fallout 3's writing is demonstrably worse, not only does Fallout 1 and 2 have awful writing by your own arrogation, but Bethesda flagrantly copies this [censored] writing in it's mainquest, with the story being a blend of fo1 and fo2's story elements.

An idiot may write something down that's asinine but it takes someone truly special to then copy them...

Back to traits.

I figure since skills are now perks, we are going to get a certain number of perk points at character creation to flesh out the character.

The Lone Survivor is a vet so it makes sense that he starts with some useful skills.

Now they never showed us if there is a second page on the Vault Tec representative's clip board, but you will have to be able to chose those perks for your Lone Survivor at some time during character creation.

That time would also be the time to select any traits.

So they might be treating the traits as a form of perk that you can only take at the creation of your character.

Since they are only selected at character creation, there wouldn't be a reason to put them on the perk chart.

Hopefully they will have been updated and expanded.

This could be wishful thinking, but here is hoping it is not.

If they do offer perk points at the beginning of the game, I'm sure they'll be for things on the chart.

It would be cool if traits changed character progression in some way. Like, taking the "Skilled" trait could give you enough immediate XP to level up like 15 times right then and there, but then you'd never gain any XP for the rest of the game. Or "Gifted" could set all your SPECIAL stats to max at the cost of never being able to take any perks. Okay, maybe that would be insane. Or maybe traits that change the leveling curve so that leveling is relatively faster/slower in the earlier levels, but relatively slower/faster in the lategame.

Traits that change how scenarios or interactions play out would be cool, too, like unique dialogue for characters with the six Appeal trait, or wilder random encounters with the Jinxed trait. Traits that just reward us with positive/negative karma from the start would be cool, too, mabe.

You mean one where they actually design an interesting gaming world to explore that doesn't put you to sleep?

Here's an idea for a trait which could be modded into the game: due to your extended cryosleep, stimpaks no longer have an effect on you, but eating pre-war food recovers 200% of standard HP, over time.

Call it Refrigerated

Actually, the bolded was my point entirely, people ignoring how Fallout 3's writing was exactly the same as past games.

When the point of the series is to be stupid, why would you not be? Its like complaining that Saints Row 3 and 4 have utterly garbage writing........ that's kind of the point, and a focal on the whole game's setting.

Given how they usually give you enough EXP to auto level from level 1 to 2, simply by beating the tutorial, I doubt they would give you perks then, only to give you more like 5 minutes later.

Well they do allow you to tag 3 skills in Fallout 3 and Fallout NV so it would make sense to allow you at least 3 skill perks.

You are a vet so you should have some useful skills.

Yeah, this is what worries me. Bethesda have created a game that looks insanely fun, with the game world, revamped combat mechanics and new crafting system which just blows my mind. But lots of sacrifices look to have been made.

I can't criticise the skill system yet (which looks too streamlined to me), but the apparent lack of things like traits and a hardcoe mode is very disappointing to me.

Maybe skill ONLY perks with the free tags. Not difficult to imagine.

Looks like traits are out too.

P.S: Just to put it out there, John Gonzalez, not Chris Avellone, was the lead designer of Fallout: New Vegas.

Good idea, but pretty sure it's wishful thinking.

Yeah I always hated the negatives, but generally I would find one that would put negatives into something that I didn't use or would affect me much. But then I would basically always use this trait so the point of having choices of them seems useless.

Course they could have added them and just had the option to not have one if nothing catered to your role-play. I would have preferred this.

Meh. The GECK comes out in February and then we can do whatever we want with our overpriced crippled software.

Let's be honest here: traits are really just perks with downsides. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they got rolled into that system too. Also, I wouldn't judge the character creation sequence that we've seen already too...conclusively. Keep in mind in F3, we didn't tag skills until a little bit further into the game. Pure speculation, but I anticipate that skills did get rolled into perks and that at the beginning, we get to grab 3 perks. Some of those could be what we used to consider traits.

First thing I'll check for is if you get to reroll at the end of Chargen and if so are there bugs which allow you to keep the perks you already selected.

Traits are just like hardcoe mode in that they are optional, were well-received, and don't take all that much effort to include in the game. Removing either of them would be indefensibly stupid, and would demonstrate that Bethesda is willing to neuter complexity for absolutely no good reason despite large portions of the fan base who crave it.

Again, it wouldn't be difficult. Adapt traits from New Vegas and FO1/2, maybe add some of their own (or don't). As easy as adding a few new perks. For hardcoe mode, copy/paste the New Vegas system. There will certainly be food and water as game items already.

I doubt Bethesda would include traits in F4; they have downsides with them, and that level of decision making and risk reward is too much for Bethesda's usual audience. Also its an RPG mechanic; who needs those in an RPG?

Awesome Possum, why the hell do you even play Fallout if you don't like the upbeat retro 1950's theme mixed with the contrast of a dark post apocalyptic world?

Honestly that comment alone just destroys any foundation of any of your following reasons.

This is not the game for you.

I doubt it because we would've seen it in the intro unless they are saving it for in the vault. It's disappointing because Traits can add so much to gameplay. I know New Vegas would be hurt a little bit by the removal of traits. It would still be a great game because of the choices you can make but no traits would hurt that a little.

Exactly why I'm holding off on judgement. In F3, skill tags came a little later in the intro.

It would take away Wild Wasteland for one. Which is great to cater to both those that like the serious theme or look fondly back on the weirdness of Fallout 2.

To me it made for a great option in NV. More options to tailor your gameplay = better gameplay for everyone.