In Oblivion, charm could be cast on someone right in front of their eyes, and they wouldn't mind at all. Isn't that a little odd? Shouldn't it count as a sort of low-level, fraudulent crime?

The same with invisibility and chameleon. If a guard sees you go into sneak mode, they keep an eye on you. Why not the same for sneak-spells?

Or, say, casting shield or resistance on self. That makes you look like you're prepping for a fight, and naturally, people around you should be on edge; same idea as if you drew your weapon in a tavern.

Sound reasonable?

making someone like you is a crime?

Brainwashing someone ain't legal.

you could always make them like you more with spells but you cannot force them to follow orders. I like it this way personally.

As long as no one notices your doing to the the guy, I don't see a problem.

This is not thread your looking for.

I always assumed that a secondary effect of the charm spell was that the target would be unaware of being charmed. But it was very odd going up to a count, charming him/her, and the guards stand about shuffling their feet.

Interesting. I like the idea of charm spells being regarded as a crime. Perhaps as you level up in Illusion magic, certain perks will make the spells less conspicuous and thus the spells will able to be cast on individuals without retribution from on lookers such as guards or anyone with a knowledge of magic. This will force magic users, in early stages of the game, to rely on alternative methods to get NPC's alone in order to charm them or to use an alternative the not so obvious target charm spell while such as a more draining from-self charm spell, that doesn't give off a signature glow.

Charm spells are a command humanoid away from being magical roofies. Absolutely should be illegal. Think about a universe where you can magically influence people. Government would be completely broken. The only thing that matters would be who has the best charm spell. Casting anything beyond restoration and specific buff spells on npcs should be illegal.

This has always bugged me.

To add, realistically, I doubt a charm spell would glow so damn bright. When I think of a charm spell I imagine a passive touch. No give aways, just looks like a friendly gesture.

Not that I'd want to get rid of the spell. Love it, just think it needs some changing.

Make it look like what Revoler posted. Quick, subtle. And make it so guards and anyone looking still might be suspicious of it.

are you sure?
I cant imagine that a law exists against it
holding someone against their will is illegal and torture but I am not sure about brainwashing

I also doubt when you cast a charm spell, you're really ejaculating pink swirlies everywhere. I always assumed that was just from it being a video game, and what was really going on was a flirtatious or not so flirtatious but mysteriously comforting gesture that somehow also carried magic behind it.

how is charm spell radically different from smooth talking some one? the context is what matters here, it depends on if you are using a charm spell to get them to give you something they wouldn't other wise given on their own free will. besides, charm spell would never have any use, its existance is based around mage characters not having either high speechcraft or personality who other wise would never be able to pass certain speech based quests. its not so much about being realistic, its about balance.

If it became a crime the spell would be practically useless. How often do you have the chance to sneak up on a shopkeeper or quest person?

I really like this. Charming someone right in front of them is like scamming someone to give you their money. Its the reason blackmail and pyramid schemes are illegal.

I wouldn't like it if it was a crime. No fun in that.

thats taking someone elses possessions though, if charm is illegal than debates would be illegal because they are trying to use something to change your ways of thinking, which is kinda part of the legal process in itself

The issue with a charm spell is that it is so blatant. How could one be charmed when a person obviously casts it right at them RIGHT in front of them? Noticing the spell being cast would immediately piss most people off, as the caster is clearly altering something about them. Its kind of a push. You cast a spell to charm them, but them seeing it should piss them off, countering the effects of the spell.

I agree, charm spells should be more difficult to cast, considering illusionists could run around charming everything in sight without a problem.


Charming is the equivalent of a temporary magical lobotomy. Debates involve two parties discussing things in an orderly manner, not smashing pins into their skull to make them agree with you.

its not about how it applies in real life, its about making the speech system more accesable to more character types; in the case of charm spell, it makes speech more accessable to mages who other wise would be at an unintended disadvantage.

EDIT: @Orzone its not necessarily getting people to do somthing they would never do, it just increases someones favorable opinion of you (and it does wear off after the time is up, so maybe disposition should decrease from its base afterwards to compensate for the realism.) but making it a crime reduces the purpose of charm and the fun of using illusion spells.

But making lighting people on fire a crime reduces the purpose of fire and the fun of using destruction spells!

A charm spell of sufficiently high level IS equivalent to a lobotomy.

It should comes under the laws as witchcraft. :flamed:

But why would the spell be so blatant? Don't you think it would be incredibly awkward and cause the exact opposite effect? Maybe in the lower levels it would be obvious, but if you actually cast a spell to charm someone nobody should know about it.

No, if it was illegal then I wouldn't use it at all and then the spell would become pointless. What's the point of making someone like you if you're going to jail for it?

No

You would have to use your brain and actually charm someone from a hidden place. Charming wouldn't be as haphazard as it once was.