I have seen / heard about some (UI) add-on's that gives out way way to much info. Also, I am thinking of any new add-on's might be made. I have some red flags in my mind and concern for the fun for all in the game. I understand that some want more info then the default UI will gave and others are happy with the min UI.

Here are my simple questions:

1) Where is the line in the sand when an add-on / mod becomes to much like cheating and it is in fact bad for the game and the people who play the game?

2) How will ZOS handle such add-ons? Should they hold back some info so that the add-on(s) will NOT be over powerful (God Mode Like) and ruin the game for all?

1. The line in the sand as far as i'm concerned is any mod that controls your character or performs any action instead of you controlling your character.

2. I'm no programmer, but control seems pretty easy to me. ZOS controls which information is available to add-on makers. If they don't want players to have certain information, devs simply don't feed it to them.

Look out for them buff timers and cast bars, ya'll. They'll corrupt your children next.

:/

Of course they do, they wouldn't cheat otherwise . I've never used add ons myself anyway, I prefer skill over add ons that simplify things.

I dont worry about it , they would remove addons access to some info if it gets to a point where it threatens balance.

I only used addons for Ui stuff , like better map on WoW

I'm sure I read somewhere when someone asked Zenimax about buffs etc being displayed on he main screen, they said that the option is there for people to make custom UIs to display such info.

So they are obviously happy with that.

I know http://tamrielfoundry.com/ already have a new UI that will be available at release and I cant wait.

I don't want to suspend my game mid battle to press "c" to see if my buff is still active, if people think me having that info on the main screen is cheating, well I think its you that has the problem

On a similar note, the debates I've seen about the lack of a mini map and the amount of people saying we don't need one and it ruins the immersion etc, almost every single beta video I've seen, when they are running through the landscape, every 5 - 10 secs, they are pressing "m" and the whole screen is taken up by the map. How that doesn't ruin the immersion more, I don't know.

I would happily have buffs, mini map, timers and player names om my screen if a UI allowed.

From what I understand (which isn't a lot admittedly) about the addons, they can only use info that Zenimax has allowed the game to share with the addons in the first place.

You cannot and will not be able to do anything that Zenimax does not want you to be able to do. You will not get god mod or invulnerability or anything like that. Users cannot magically get a billion gold or add 100 extra skill points. Those would be considered cheating.

If they expose too much of the api for users to use, they will remove it or modify it. Much like Blizzard did when they made mistakes with giving users api's that ended up allowing automatic heals to be done in a mod.

It'll happen, they are bound to expose stuff that turns out to be overpowered for an addon, people will complain and it will get removed. People are worrying way to much about addons and their overall power.

The line in the sand should be..

Performance enhancing addons = banned (dps meters/ Gearscores)

Cosmetic addons = allowed (UI designs, UI placements).

Buff timers are not so iffy. You already have timers, its just that Timer numbers might help you recognise the CD better. So they are not performance enhancing.

In an action based game, DPS is subjective depending on player skill. Someone using the exact same skills could see drastically different numbers from someone else using the same skills. DPS meters don't make a better player, they just let you see what you're doing.

That's like trying to claim a stopwatch is on the same level as steroids in competitive sports.

its awesome you said this. people always call a game easy but the first thing they do is download add ons to make it even easier lol

Oh please...don't ignore every post I have made on DPS meters in these forums (or I hope you honestly haven't seen them).

DPS meters cause others to set a standard for anything group orientated. If you fail to meet those standards, you are alienated & rejected from a group.

To prove you meet those balderdash standards, you must use DPS meter....so the addon is FORCED onto you. If you don't use it, its an automatic rejection.

It isn't a personal use thing.

Its measuring tape where people will judge everyone around them to segregate & alienate.

Pretty much this!

I do not mind the extra info given by mods to the player who wants to use them (either is a buff timer or a DPS meter), but i do mind mods that allow automated actions (like macros etc.)

Although i am not so optimistic about companies trying to control what kind of mods should be used or not, usually they fail on the long run.

True. I pride myself on learning my class, and how to play it to its max. I spent 6 years on LOTRO perfecting my skills as a Captain, and that's how like it. I don't want an add on that others use that tells someone when and what heal to use. Play the game how it was made to be played.

Performance or lack thereof will be there with or without the add-ons...

Basically you just don't want anyone to have any tools to benchmark performance.

Welcome to MMO's, where your performance affects other people's gameplay.

Thank you for admitting what you have all been denying to this point.

I will leave this nonsense knowing my point has been proven.

A game is for playing...not "benchmarking" or reading statistics.

Clearly you don't understand how programming works in this regard. People cannot do anything and write anything that zenimax does not want to happen.They won't be controlling individual mods, they control the API and on the fly compiler that the lua is processed through. People will not be able to just write mods/addons to do whatever they want. They can only do what is exposed to them.

I'll leave you to your opinion then.

Well i do not know much about programming indeed, i hope you are right.

I haven't seen your posts on the topic.

In a game where rotations are more standard I would maybe agree with you, but in this game where movement, skill and positioning are far more important than just mashing 1-2-3-4-5 on the keyboard in a specific order, DPS meters honestly mean far less than you're making them out to.

And what Heisenberg said. If you don't want people expecting your best performance, play with people who won't expect your best performance, but remember that your performance affects other people and not everyone is nice and forgiving and some people are just [censored]bags that are going to want you to in all likelihood play better than they do themselves. This is another problem entirely and nothing to do with the big bad evil addons.

DPS meters don't cause standards to be set. People cause standards to be set. People set standards given whatever tools they have. Without a DPS meter, people will set standards based on the gear you're wearing or the spec you run. Those that want to set standards and be elitist will always find a way of doing.

Also, you don't need a DPS meter to dps anymore than you need a clock to be able to run fast. The DPS meter or clock merely gives you a retroactive measure of your performance. I am commonly top raid dps in EQ2 without a running a DPS meter.

There is no such thing in my experience as looking up at a DPS meter mid-fight, seeing "oh i am 1.8 million, i should be at 2.0, let me press more buttons". I mean, if you're either doing yoru best or you're not. Parsers / meters just tell you afterward exactly what you did. And the only reason they even exist is because developers are too lazy to make their combat logs user-friendly.

I am, I'm a developer of 20+ years now. =)

No..it will deteriorate the same as always.

"You arn't doing enough DPS, get lost"

"You should run DPS meters & GS and aim for this amount of dps"

eventually

"You need to run this specific spec for your class to reach this DPS".........

Welcome to yet another game runed with addons.

And why should the community be punished by those using addons? Because that is, in essence, what will happen.

This has everything to do with addons & exactly how they ruin the games.

People do cause standards to be set, achieving excellence requires standards.

We were setting standards and benchmarking ourselves and each other the hard way(excel spreadsheets from parsed combat logs) long before add-ons came around.

Ok.

If you don't want to use addons; don't. It's that simple. If a group determines you aren't doing enough damage and you feel that you are, then leave the group or start your own group.