CHIM : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:35 pm

Jesus H. Christ! Limitation vs. Irrationality vs. all those other words by people who actually understand them... these are NOT CONFLICTING THEORIES. This isn't a case of who killed Cuhlecain, it's the same thing through different spiritual worldviews. So you can't continually parrot and apply them while using a Webster's definition of the word.

Case in point: Sithis is the only reason Anuiel ever did anything. It is possibility to action. But he is also a form of limit because Anuiel is static everything, and your perception of everything at once requires a lense and a partition to perceive it at all. It needs definition, which compared to looking at the entire universe at once, is 'limiting.'

The paw hath spoken, desemble.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:28 am

but... but, there are no limitations to CHIM. That's what it is. Besides, realizing that the universe is a lie wouldn't amount to CHIM, you'd have to have the realization and then still be able to say, "[censored] that, I'm still me" else you'd zero sum.
EDIT: ^ in response to M'Aiq, not paw-prints

If CHIM had no restrictions, then why does anything exist? One without restrictions would completely undo the mortal world, which exists because of limits.

When something or someone has no restrictions, then everything is done everywhere at every time in once. That would include the destruction of the mortal world which is limits.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:27 pm

If CHIM had no restrictions, then why does anything exist? One without restrictions would completely undo the mortal world, which exists because of limits.

When something or someone has no restrictions, then everything is done everywhere at every time in once. That would include the destruction of the mortal world which is limits.

The Godhead is the only limitless being. It is ultimate, unabridged totality. Chim is mantling the Godhead, becoming totality and becoming the patriarch in the family tree of the universe. Thus, it cannot have limits, or it is not Chim. A limit applied to Chim is the breaking of the Crowned Tower and its loss.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:46 am

It depends on what this god represents, I think. In Lorkhans case, he is the god of limits and possibility, so if he was destroyed, things would be reverted back to pre-mundus stage.

The very idea of a god, that is, one who controls and embodies a sphere of mortal influence, dying is illogical, even in the Aurbis. Regardless of what he represents, Lorkhan dying would have the same impact of any other god dying.

Yeah, they can become EXTINCT, i.e. obsolete, but they can't necessarily die and leave their sphere unfilled.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:56 am

The Godhead is the only limitless being. It is ultimate, unabridged totality. Chim is mantling the Godhead, becoming totality and becoming the patriarch in the family tree of the universe. Thus, it cannot have limits, or it is not Chim. A limit applied to Chim is the breaking of the Crowned Tower and its loss.

But then this Godhead must be a lie, or else nothing would exist.

Because, as i said:
When you have no limits, you wouldn't be able to restrict your actions, and thus you will do and un-do everything, independant of time.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:32 pm

...Lol, this is getting ridiculously hilarious....practically all that's being said is true and false at the same time, concerning CHIM.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:08 am

...Lol, this is getting ridiculously hilarious....practically all that's being said is true and false at the same time, concerning CHIM.

Don't you just love TES lore?

The idea of CHIM is stupid, yet it is sadly enough a fact in the TES world.

EDIT: Read page 6, I don't think it's stupid anymore, since someone finally explained some things to me on page 5.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:58 am

Well, if one would then destroy Lorkhan, the source of limits,

That would just put things back to the state before Nirn was created. Aedra and Daedra chilling in their realms of everlasting imperfection, unable to break free of the boring endless cycle of their creation and destruction at the hands of each other.

If CHIM had no restrictions, then why does anything exist?

How many more fantasy-world-power-of-your-imagination-references do I have to let slip before you catch on?

» Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:13 pm

That would just put things back to the state before Nirn was created. Aedra and Daedra chilling in their realms of everlasting imperfection, unable to break free of the boring endless cycle of their creation and destruction at the hands of each other.

That's what I said...

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:07 am

The idea of CHIM is stupid, yet it is sadly enough a fact in the TES world.

I disagree absulotly.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:19 am

But then this Godhead must be a lie, or else nothing would exist.

nothing else does exist. everything is the Godhead. God outside of all else but his own free consciousness, hallucinating for eternity and falling into love: I AM AND I ARE ALL WE.

C0DA Digitals have confirmed that a subject in sensory deprivation begins to hallucinate after only twenty minutes. Scale unto this along the magical spectrum and maintenance of time, which is forever, and you begin to see the Lunar God's failure as Greatest Gift. As above, "This is the love of God."

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:59 pm

How many more fantasy-world-power-of-your-imagination-references do I have to let slip before you catch on?

Eh?

Of course it's stupid. You've already shown that you don't understand it and have only irritating rule-of-thumb explanations to go by. That's the reason we don't put it in the faq.

What do you mean I don't understand CHIM? Because I think it's stupid? If something is everything so that it is nothing, I think it is rather stupid, because I'd rather live in a world with limits and possibilities.

And if you are going to insult me, then why don't you show you know by telling me what CHIM is, rather than just saying I'm wrong?

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:39 am

The idea of CHIM isn't stupid; it's extremely sensible if anything.

Just look at some of the real life people tha achieved CHIM...

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:35 am

The idea of CHIM is stupid, yet it is sadly enough a fact in the TES world.

Of course it's stupid. You've already shown that you don't understand it and have only irritating rule-of-thumb explanations to go by. That's the reason we don't put it in the faq.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:02 am

Of course it's stupid. You've already shown that you don't understand it and have only irritating rule-of-thumb explanations to go by. That's the reason we don't put it in the faq.

Meh, i tried to explian.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:32 am

Meh, i tried to explian.

Well, pretty much any straightforward explanation is rule-of-thumb, no matter who's giving it.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:59 am

What do you mean I don't understand CHIM? Because I think it's stupid? If something is everything so that it is nothing, I think it is rather stupid, because I'd rather live in a world with limits and possibilities.

So what are the limits on magic or imagination?

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:17 am

so you would rather be bogged down by death weakness and pain rather then have achieved a state of ultimate enlightenment where you can do anything you please?

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:21 am

So what are the limits on magic?

As far as I know, Magnus ripped a hole in Mundus to create the portal to the unlimited, which is magic.

so you would rather be bogged down by death weakness and pain rather then have achieved a state of ultimate enlightenment where you can do anything you please?

You wouldn't be doing anything, because everything would already have been done. You've already stated it yourself. There is no way to do something without having limits/possibility.
Quote from yourself: "possibility does not exist without "limitation" because everything already IS."

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:44 pm

As far as I know, Magnus ripped a hole in Mundus to create the portal to the unlimited, which is magic.
You wouldn't be doing anything, because everything would already have been done. You've already stated it yourself. There is no way to do something without having limits/possibility.

So what about imagination?

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:58 am

So what about imagination?

Isn't your mind classified as doing something when you imagine? And when you can't do anything because there are no limits/possibilities, then you wouldn't be doing any imagining. The only way imagination would be limitless would be if there were limits. Imagination is trying to grant your mind limitless freedom, but in reality, true "limitlessness" means doing nothing.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:59 am

So what about imagination?

Imagination varies from person to person but the majority of people have a limitless imagination.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:20 am

What is chim?

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:33 am

the point of CHIM is to do stuff. vehk used it to [censored] azura in the mouth, talos used to to retcon joungle... CHIM gives you the ability to edit the world of possibility because you are that world.

you, as god, are asleep. the world is your dream and therefore it and everything in it is you. if you realize that you are dreaming without waking up you can change the course of your dream.

» Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:32 am

the point of CHIM is to do stuff. vehk used it to [censored] azura in the mouth, talos used to to retcon joungle... CHIM gives you the ability to edit the world of possibility because you are that world.

you, as god, are asleep. the world is your dream and therefore it and everything in it is you. if you realize that you are dreaming without waking up you can change the course of your dream.

This is where I fail to see how things could work. If you are a being with no limits, then how could you limit your actions to actually do something that you want?

Control basically means limiting yourself.