http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/np26d/merry_chimmas_rteslore/

I saw this post, and made a comment "correcting" the statement about zero-summing and CHIM.




Here was my response:

Loved your post, but I feel like there's something that doesn't add up (excuse the pun) with your zero summing.

• The statement "I exist" can be referred to as 1, I agree.

• * However, the statement "I do not exist" can only be referred to as 0, *not* -1

Technically the statement(contradiction) it should be 1 + x = 0 where x is the unknown. Which would translate into I exist, while not existing at the same time, how can this be? To clarify this, we do not know of "anti-existence" which "-1" would represent. We only know Existence and Lack of Existence. EMPHASIS ON "KNOW".

To answer this question, I'll use the mathematical example of imaginary numbers. The square root of negative numbers cannot be represented by real numbers, but there must be a number "i" that is the sqrt(-1). To fill this gap seeming paradox, we imagine a number "i" being the solution to sqrt(-1)

Therefore, i = sqrt(-1).

We can do the same for existence and non-existence.

This statement is as follows:

1 + x = 0 where "x" is anti-existence, which can be related to matter's anti-matter. When matter meets with anti-matter; the resulting reaction annihilates everything in the surroundings.

We can then conclude that in this dream state, we both exist and anti-exist, so we in fact; do not exist.

While I have a lot of respect for MK, I feel that I needed to point this out.

EDIT:

I Just read http://imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius which explains the disappearance of the dwemer which was a link posted by OP a few days ago in another thread. I'm thrilled that these letters associate the dwemer's ambitions to ascend to god-hood as "anti-creation"

Fits with my theory
------------------------
It was brought to my attention that I should post this here, what do you guys think?

No. That is all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor.

Furthermore, MK never used that anology himself (as far as I'm aware).

That explanation of zero-summing doesn't jive with how I've always seen it, and seems a bit contrived.

Arklon, I love your profile pic.

What I want to know is: why in the world would someone go to reddit for TES lore Reddit is good for a lot of things, but...

I was introduced to it about a month ago. I haven't had much time to troll about it as regularly as this forum and TIL, but some of the people there are pretty knowledgeable (much more so than the UESP forums).

My God. Why is everyone complaining about that post? It seems perfectly sound. Just because someone explains something complicated in an easily digestible way doesn't mean it's wrong! I swear you guys must be masochists if you're all happy with hazy definitions which everyone seems to have a different permutation of. It's not just TES lore either. Some people would just rather have things confusing and murky rather than try to get some concreteness.

As for going to Reddit for TES lore...

Why does it matter!? Why go anywhere for anything? Is there some secret in html that creates a better environment for discussing TES lore? As long as you can type and read text, anywhere is good. It's the people that matter, and if Reddit has people who like TES lore, it's as good a place as any to discuss it!

Vehk, Seht, Ayem, Shor, Aka, Herma Mora, Leki, Jyggalag give me strength! Please don't let this forum be some exclusive snob den!

Suppose it just feels a bit roundabout and, er, generalized (?), much like asking lore questions in the Skyrim general forum. Sure, you'll get people who know their stuff, but you'll also expose yourself to a whole bunch of people who don't, are just guessing, or are presenting false information as truth. I admit that I'm not familiar enough with the Reddit community to know the ratio, or maybe only the people who know lore bother replying in lore threads there :shurg:

Because, as much as I realise it is worse, I'm a [censored] go-er... Hail Sigourney!

What is this!? They placed a censor over the name of the arch-enemy of Reddit... I smell a conspiracy...

Well the only times I ever went to Reddit were to look at Dogfort comics, so I don't know the viewership either, but I love that Vehk avatar. I liked that post too. So nice and calm without judgment, warmly reinforcing my own understanding of CHIM and Zero-Sum. It's great when you have corroborating opinions.

Oh well. Enough feeling good about myself for today. Time to divide by zero. See you all in a few [NUMINIT]

Right?! Paranoia started cropping up when I realized my main hang-out is unmentionable here. Guess it's a bit of a pariah. Understandably, given its reputation, which it mainly doesn't deserve.
And idk about "worse". Both are bad in their own way.

What is the arch-nemesis of Reddit? Dare I ask.

Yeah, I know what you mean; it's a shame about its undeserved censoring. Ahahahah, they are bad in their own way... I tried out Reddit though, and I just didn't like it... Damn that 9gag though!

@XxChaplainxX The board is censoring it's proper name but it's called four chan. There are occasionally ES Lore threads on that too, and it's nice to see so many people interested in it - in the most unlikely of places.

On Reddit, people who make condescending statements that offer no value whatsoever are downvoted to oblivion. The sub-reddit I linked to is "/r/TESLore" _NOT_ /r/skyrim, how the hell is that a round-about way to discuss TES Lore? I mean reddit is everything and nothing. It is what you make of it. There are plenty of respectable sub-reddits, and it's a great tool for communication. On the other-hand, there are less respectable ones, but to each his own.


A metaphor is general knowledge, but OK. What's the point of using a metaphor if it's inherently wrong?


http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride
and
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/lord-vivecs-sword-meeting-cyrus-restless

CTRL+F "zero-sum"

I'm extremely disappointed by the responses in this thread, none are remotely on topic that is interesting to me...

four chan is the arch-nemesis of all rational thought.

"Lightning never strikes in the same place twice" is a nice metaphor to describe something improbable happening (or not happening in this case) more than once, but is actually wrong. Lightning does strike the same place twice, that's what lightning rods are for.
You opened the thread with reading TES lore on reddit. Most of us have never discussed it outside TES-themed websites, but a lot of us have discussed Zero-sum a lot. When you couple that with the fact we don't often stay on topic (see that Hans the Fox thread), especially once we feel like we've answered it to our satisfaction, I think you can begin to understand why.

Actually, rereading it, I missed the actual point. It's fine. Sorry.

/b/, maybe. The rest of it's not so bad, and generally as unaffiliated with the things the site is famous for as possible.
But enough about this, we're off topic and since the name is banned I get the impression we ought not go on about it too much.

Using a metaphor wrongly as you described does nothing but convey ignorance on the subject. Lightning isn't random at all, as you seem to know, its path can be calculated given proper information. I guess your comment simply states that it's fine to be ignorant, and if somebody uses an anology based on incorrect general knowledge then we should let it be instead of trying to rectify it?



Well first off, you seem to really not comprehend what reddit is, or how sub-reddits work. I'll forgive your ignorance, but the fact that I've already explained this above is annoying.


Please click this link: http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore and tell me it's not TES-themed, please.





No worries. I came here looking for feedback on this, but I guess I'm doomed to keep arguing about whether or not Reddit is a legit source of information.

As far as I can tell, you're objecting to metaphor of zero-sum as the mathematical "1+ -1 = 0." MK never uses that metaphor in either of the linked texts, he just mentions the word "zero-sum." So your problem is with the person using the metaphor, rather than MK.

That's basically it, but no math has to be involved. We don't exist as individual beings because we are the figment of the Godhead's imagination. We exist as individual beings because we perceive ourselves as such. The moment one realizes that he is just a part of a dream, along with everyone else, he no longer sees himself as an individual, and hence he ceases to exist (is becomes nothing, zero-sums).

Yes you're right, MK never used the "1 + -1 = 0", but "Zero-sum" is any integer plus it's inverse = 0.

About the math, it doesn't have to be involved, but it's a very elegant theory if it is.

The Dwemer's plan for ascension to god-hood through Numidium is referred to as "anti-creation".
http://imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius

I guess CHIM is like having a lucid-dream, inside Godhead's imagination. Where you realize that you're in a dream, but instead of awaking, you remain in the dream-state, fully aware that you're dreaming and can manipulate and bend environment at will.

Most of the sub-forums, indeed; however, there are some that provoke interesting and rational thought on occasion: Science and Math (/sci/). There are, I concede, many idiots on the board though...

That actually seems like a very apt anology, and I've never heard it compared to that before. Nice.