Hey, lore buffs. I've just recently started to get into the lore of TES, and in my readings, I am under the impression that the Chimer somehow changed into the Dunmer at some point.

Is this true?
Where did the Chimer come from?
How did the change take place?
What changed?
What caused the change?

thanks guys/gals

The Chimer were a bunch of High Elves who took up Daedra Worship, and due to the conflict with the traditional Altmer religion went on an exodus to the northeast.

Three Chimer, Vivec, Sotha Sil, and Almalexia discovered an artifact called the Heart of Lorkhan, previously used by the Dwemer (and most likely linked to their disappearance). These three used it to attain godhood. Azura, one of the most popular goddesses of the Chimer, was not pleased with this (some say she also was angry at how those three elves killed their king, Nerevar, who refused to use the Heart), and cursed the Chimer race to have grey skin and red eyes. The cursed Chimer renamed themselves the Dunmer, and the three demigods became the rulers of this new race, until their fall in the game "Morrowind".

The Aldmer were a race of sophisticated Aesdra worshiping Elves who lived on Summerset Isles early in the history of Nirn.

A prophet named Veloth received visions from three Daedra - Azura, Mephala and Boethia - who instructed him that Aedra worship was decadent and false. Veloth began spreading these teachings of a new society, and eventually led his followers in an exodus across Tamriel to a promised land. Along the way, Auriel's champion Trinimac tried to stop Veloth, but he was tricked by Boethia and turned into Malacath. As a result the specific cult which followed Trinimac all turned into Orcs. With those enemies out of the way, Veloth and his people arrived in what would be considered modern day Morrowind.

They found it was already inhabited by another heretical strain of Aldmer called the Dwemer. At first their two races warred and despised one another due to differing beliefs - while the newly formed Chimer worshiped the Daedra, the Dwemer worshiped Reason and Logic. Eventually, they were united against a common enemy - the Nords. A great war leader of the Chimer named Indoril Nerevar, who was one of Azura's greatest champions, allied himself with Dumac Dwarf-Orc the leader of the Dwarves. Their combined forces drove back the armies of Skyrim, Nerever eventually discovered that Dumac's priest Kagranac was using the Heart of Lorkhan for profane purposes.

Nerevar beseeched his friend Dumac to abandon use of the Heart, as no good would come of it. Dumac angrily told Nerevar off, so Nerevar returned with a strike force to challenge the Dwarves. He and his friend Voryn Dagoth of House Dagoth fought their way deep into the tunnels under Red Mountain. Cornered, Kagranac turned his magically enchanted tools on the Heart. In an instant the Dwemer race disappeared from the face of Nirn, never to be seen again. Nerevar was puzzled, so he asked Voryn to guard the Tools while he consulted with his advisors, a cabal known as the Tribunal. (One of them was also his wife.)

The Tribunal decided to go against Nerevar's wishes and use the Tools to make themselves gods. Nerever was wounded during his fight with the Dwarves. Different sources suggest he either died of his wounds or was murdered by the Tribunal. While he lay bleeding, the Tribunal discover that Dagoth had become corrupted by his close proximity to the Heart. They managed to wrestle the Tools from him and drive him deeper under the mountain. Nerever eventually died, again from treachery or his wounds, and Sotha Sil the Mage of the Tribunal figured out how to use the Tools. He tapped into the Heart and imbued himself, Vivec the Thief and Almalexia the Warrior with divine powers.

This really pissed Azura off, because they had not only went against Nerevar's wishes and betrayed him but betrayed her and the Daedra as well. She angrily cursed them and their entire race, turning their skin ashen and their eyes red like glowing embers, and vowed Nerevar would return some day to set things right. Sotha Sil talked the Dunmer people into accepting their new look, and the Tribunal served Morrowind as living gods for many centuries. Dagoth Ur meanwhile managed to find a way to make himself immortal as well, and eventually became a great threat. Much later Nerevar actually did reincarnate, and as a result of his actions the Heart was disenchanted, the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur lost their divinity, and Morrowind was changed forever.


That's the short version.

Yes it is.

Chimer came from Summerset Isles but because they worshiped the Daedra they were cast out from the elite-Feudalistic society of the Altmer. This gave them the name 'Chimer' due to the fact they wouldn't adhere by the Altmer laws or Gods. So they literally became the 'Changed Ones'.

Change took place after the Battle of Red Mountain when Azura cursed the entire race because the Tribunal (Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Sil) became Gods and declared themselves higher than Azura, Boethia and Mephala. That they 'replaced' them as both defenders and things of worship.

They changed skin color and eye color.

Tribunal's Acension to Godhood and Azura.

I also don't care that I was ninja'd.

Also, really? Wow, the Orc's God before being 'Turned' was a dike then :V

All of the above. This change made them salty too.

I think they were pretty salty before the change.

It was sort of his job. He was made to be a defender of the faith, so to speak.

It was Trinimac who struck Lorkhan down and ripped out his heart, remember?

He was always bringing heretics back into the fold. He grossly underestimated Boethia and paid the price.

"Goobldy goo - one of us!" And now he rules a plane of Oblivion and is worshiped by Orcs.

According to some interpretations of varieties of faith, Tsun is the Nordic version of Trinimac, who amusingly died while defending Shor rather than trying to kill his followers. That's another big difference between Aldmeri and Mannish world views. The Dunmer view is more pro-Lorkhan, so naturally Trinimac hated their guts.

Yeah, but it only made it worse. I would love for Azura would have a change of heart and allow some to become chimer again

I always found that strange. In the Dawn, Trinimac could defeat Lorkhan, but later he is devoured by Boethiah (to be fair, Boethiah used deception and whatnot to lower his guard), and then he becomes Malacath, one of the weaker Daedric princes.

He kinda reminds me of an over-zealous Russia in the Czardom which claims to defend the last bastion of Rome and Orthodoxy.

And to think I played Orsmier alot and had sympathy with them. I still do but their God svcks.

And I thought Akatosh 'killed' Lorkhan?

The Chimer had their chance to stay Chimer. All they had to do was abandon the ways of Veloth and his exodites.

I guess I'll ask here since Dumac was brought up. Why exactly is Dumac referred to the Dwarf-Orc in some texts, as well as Dumalacath? Does it have anything to do with Volendrung? It's made very clear that Volendrung was a hammer of Dwarven make, so what connection does it have to Malacath?

Actually, some say that Trinimac was eaten before the Chimer, and Boethiah stole his form to convince Altmer to worship Daedra.

Volendrung is associated with the Rourken clan of Dwemer's exodus to Hammerfell. I doubt Dumac's name has anything to do with it. He's probably called Dwarf-Orc because of how he looked or acted. A Dwemer that was like an Orc.

As for How Malacath got Volendrung in the first place, we simply don't know. He probably got it from someone completing a task for him, like how the PC can give Clavicus Vile Umbra in Oblivion.

According to one text.

Ever hear of Scourge? Ever hear of the Savior's Hide? Malacath forged and blessed those artifacts.

Scourge is a nightmare for Daedra, and the Savior's Hide was potent enough to withstand Dagon's fury and the sting of the Spear of Bitter Mercy.

I think there's even a loading screen in Skyrim that pretty much says: "It's a mystery why Malacath has Volendrung."

The Savior's Hide is a Hircine Relic.

Well, Malacath prizes might, so it's understandable why he would associate himself with the Hammer of Might. I just don't understand why Volendrung has managed to completely overshadow Scourge in the past two installments, especially Oblivion.

Yes, but it was Malacath who took the peeled hide, forged it into armor, and blessed it according to Chimere Graegyn.

Weren't there Orcs at Volenfell when the Redguards arrived? They murdered Frandar Hunding didn't they? Older sources call them giant goblins with portals to Oblivion. Perhaps these Orcs were allied with Malacath and used the hammer of the Dwarves they drove out of Volenfell in battle against the Redguards. Perhaps the taint of the Daedra touched the hammer and it became a Daedric artifact, especially if one of these Orcs carried it back through a portal to Oblivion with him.

That opens up a whole new line of questioning as to why stable portals to Oblivion could open in the First Era, but that's another subject.

So, Malooc is Malacath?

Pretty obvious comparison to make. I'd say yes.

Ah, but here lies the confusion: how could an Orc be a giant goblin? The goblins of Cyrodiil and Mournhold are much larger than any Orc. Perhaps the goblins were summoning Ogrims.

Raging homicidal orcs (In the view of the Ra'Gada and generally everyone else) that were never even thought to be considered to be among the greater races. Calling them giant goblins would seem to be a apt description if someone was to make a (un)educated guess at first glance.