The Enclave's objective is to save humanity not destroy it! Those antiquated boy scouts have gotten to your mind! And by the way those vaults are the chosen people to rebuild America.

God Bless America! God Bless the Enclave! Remember the Enclave is watching.

What are you talking about, the Enclave wants to DESTROY humanity, they want to kill everyone who is infected with FEV ie Super Mutants and Kill everyone who has radiation sickness or radiation at all ie Every Wastelander and Ghouls. They want to Destroy the every person who is trying to make a life in the wasteland, and Only have "Pure" Enclave people repopulate the U.S. and the world maybe.

sigh :facepalm:

You are all missing the point. Isn't it obvious? The only place worth worrying about that didn't got nuked is the country that won. And obviously that country is........

AUSTRALIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:celebration:
Noone wants to nuke us cos we are so far out of the way.
And everyone loves us anyway...... don't they?

If china is functional, then they are going to be screwed after I launched that nuke at them from the army base

Australia just waited for the nuclear fallout to come to them. On the Beach anyone?

Movies then eh?
I call your On the Beach and raise it an Apocalypse Now

"The smell, you know that radiation smell, the whole world. Smelled like... victory."

Paraphrased of course

So the nuclear fallout may have got us but at least we were the last men standing!

Wait, what? Where is it suggested that Tenpenny and Burke are european? They don't sound particularly european or british.

Not Burke, but IIRC it's stated that Moriarty is from Ireland and Tenpenny from England.

Burke looks like definitively a pure american, isn't he ?




...So... Yes or not chinese soldiers came to DC according to you all ? :ahhh:
They invaded Alaska for sure :
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2066 :
In the winter of 2066, China invades Alaska. The Anchorage Front Line becomes a true battleground

...And we know for sure the contrary occured : US soldiers came to China main Land :
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2074 : Contrary to their claims of seeking only to retake Alaska from the Reds, American Power Armor units, infantry, and mechanized divisions are deployed to China, but they become bogged down on the mainland, putting a further drain on American resources and supply lines.

Note it does not mean really USA succeed to take back Alaska as I read upper : That just means USA opened a second battlefield on China mainground, but war was kindly still hot near Anchorage Line !
...As US soldiers love playing cards at other countries beach-clubs (sorry for this bad joke) they stayed there a while :
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2076 :
"This is the pinnacle of Power Armor technology before the Great War. Many of these units are sent to China, and they begin to carve a swath through the Chinese forces. The Chinese resources are strained to the breaking point, and the supply lines from the nations China has annexed begin to break down."

...Even so closed to the wrath, China seems one year later still very able to frighten USA
(In the same time USA is totally on the knees, both because of poverty riots and progress of infection by the " http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/New_Plague"
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2077 :
March : "Prepared for a nuclear or biological attack from China, the President and the Enclave retreats to remote sections around the globe and make contingency plans for continuing the war."
October 10 : "China invades Alaska. The Anchorage Front Line becomes a true battleground."

Note, for some weird reasons, there are some problems with retrieving the true dates of Alaska Invasion by the Reds 2066/2077 ??? ("as it was supposedly modified by the Sierra Army Depot soldiers")
I suppose during the last 10 years USA and China never finished to fight there : Power Armor gave an davantage to US army, BUT New Plague and Riots in USA might have forced a strategical retreat.
Thus, let's imagine China get (back) most part of Alaska in 2077, even if there are probably no much more oil there as the very last oil resource, according to the Fallout Bible, is NOW located somewhere in an hidden place of the Pacific still owned by... USA and where is hidding the governement itself !
In such a possible case, China is now VERY closed to the USA mainland, and USA peoples are less and less able to defend themselves because of the civil war behind their own walls...
Same year, same month, only 2 weeks later, the first bombs fall. It appears both USA and CHINA are bombed simultaneously and none will never be sure of who did what... (Enclave?Russia?Else?)
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2077 :
October 23: Great War: Bombs are launched; who struck first is unknown... and it is not even known if the bombs came from China or America. Air raid sirens sound, but very few people go into vaults, thinking it is a false alarm. The Vaults are sealed.

It remains Chinese soldiers were perhaps yet at USA mainland doors 2 weeks before : The time it takes for USA to reach Bagdad the first time, and in 2077 fusion vehicles used by the army might be even faster.
Note also that with the major crysis on USA mainland at this exact time, the lands looks like not so hard to be penetrated by the Reds :
This is indeed their last hope to win although they didn't manage to make their own power armor and I suppose they won't just let down now they are so closed to the final goal :
I beleive chinese soldiers probably even start to set campements on the american soil itself in some of the north states (there are 13 commonwealthes in FO3)
Hard to say what happened once everyone has been bombed ? Resulting in a chaotic situation, some chinese soldiers squads might have continued their way onto the south, attempting to survive there as any other human untill some final terrible ending...
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2130 : The Great Winter occurs.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2258 : Fallout 3 Begins: The Lone Wanderer is born as a child of James and Catherine.

It appears "war never ends" so no-one of USA ord China finally won the War, but before the bombs fall, China was perhaps then finally the closer to success.
Well, the retreated USA governement was still able to resist thanks to its more advanced technology and its Pacific Hidden Oil Resources but...
There were not so many things still to protect on USA mainland yet before the bombs fall, because of the USA weakness during the infection of the New Plague and Poverty Riots US army had to calm down in a bloody way.


...For me there are a lot of other questions about the war results :
_ Why no snow on DC and such a clear sky above our head in FO3 ? Did the Great Winter finished after a century "only" ?
_ What about the New Plague and other bio-weapons left in the air before the Bombing ?
_ What about the everywhere-jails built during the riots and the infection, before China finally succeed taking advantage on USA in Alaska ?
_ What about US soldiers on the China mainland soil ? Did they tried to survive there too :
_ Can't we really imagine South-America and Australia involved, even indirectly, in such fightings ?

Some of the stuff you mention is from the GNN holodisk in Fallout 2, which is considered non-canon, as it contradicts the original FO1 timeline. There was no second invasion of Alaska.

Damn, that text coloring against the quote background is nigh-unreadable.

Keep in mind that the "reality" of the Fallout universe is often the whimsical and archaic reality of apocalyptic science fiction from the '50s. Since radiation causes mutations and society still uses vacuum tubes side-by-side with optical computing, it's really akin to a set of genre conventions. Nuclear winter, atmospheric disturbances, and climate change all function according to the notions of what science fiction thought might happen, not necessarily according to accepted modern models. (Indeed, if the world had suffered from nuclear winter and climate change on the actual scale dictated by the war, there wouldn't be enough habitable world left for the Fallout games to happen!)
Before the war, D.C. was largely swampland with a lot of temperature variation. After the war, well, it's a brown and black wasteland, because that's what the genre demands. Besides . . . considering how badly radioactive the various water is, can you imagine the horror of having to deal with radioactive, acidic rain and snow? (I posited a Fallout scenario that I designed and might script at some future date called Fallout: Rain dealing with just this problem.)
One of the recurring themes of Fallout is that life will find a way to continue, albeit often under great struggles and with violence and suffering. It's not unreasonable, given this notion, to presume that U.S. remnant forces remain in parts of China, just as remnant Chinese elements are in the U.S.; and that other countries are similarly ravaged and war-torn, with survivors crawling out of the rubble. If Australia was untouched by the war, for instance, then presumably after 200 years they would have projected their powerful industrial presence and comparatively high population all around the globe to take control of any remaining resources, and the Enclave would find itself locked in a war with the Aussies. It's likely that some underpopulated parts of the third world escaped the full brunt of nuclear devastation, but since these would have been low-population unindustrialized areas anyway, they are not exactly in a position to take advantage of their "good fortune," such as it is. (I don't imagine that many nukes were wasted on the Sahara.)

(Indeed but non-canon sounds to me like not-fitting the propaganda)
Well, you are talking about a second invasion, but nowhere is told EXACTLY a first invasion failed or succeed :
That's not because some soldiers were sent to China's mainland that USA succeed to get back ALASKA before ! :read:
The war perhaps has never stopped in Alsaka while US soldiers were in China.

In the same time US army had then to survey riots in its own country, because of sudden Mass Poverty (war effort) and upcoming of The New Plague in Denver.
...All this MIGHT have TOTALLY changed the curse of war :
It is even said that US army had to use the Power Armor to fight against the civils of its own countries, and then a lot of soldiers decided to stop fighting for their governement because of being disgusted by civil war.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline#2077 http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/New_Plague hits Denver.
"Rioters burned down large parts of the city in their fear of contamination and anger at their treatment.
Many panicked and fled the city by car, clogging the freeways when they ran out of gas and trapping everyone behind them."
"January 22: The first domestic use of Power Armor within the United States for crowd and quarantine control.
Units originally serving in China and the Anchorage Front Line find themselves fighting Americans at home.
Food riots increase, and many civilians are killed.
Several soldiers defect from the military both in Canada and the United States.
They are captured, and are sent to military prisons. "
"February: FEV Research is leaked to the world through an unknown source. Protests in many major cities and governments around the world, as well as accusations that the US was responsible for the New Plague. FEV is seen as the threat it is, and serves only to fuel tensions. The governments of the world fear what the US is up to. Speculating anything from trying to make a breed of super soldier, to trying to make Hitler's master race, they begin to panic."
"October 20:" Captain Roger Maxson, now in control of Mariposa, declares himself to be in full desertion from the army (via radio)... and nothing happens.


... Then, what more to prevent Red Army to come if power armor isn't enough and US soldiers are quitting the army ?


:hugs:

January 10 2077: Alaska is reclaimed, and the Anchorage Front Line is again held by the Americans.

The October 10 invasion is not canon, since it's from the GNN transcript (whose author forgot to check with the original timeline first).

As for the Chinese soldiers in DC, the Chinese were running an espionage operation under the cover of Mama Dolce's.

Well, allright then : Thanks about the spy info.
It remains, between January and October 2077 it happens a lot of things and USA governement, with Enclave, will flee "something" from China in March.
USA mainland is at this time no more safe because of the New Plague, but they are also fleeing something else.

... Perhaps do they know the war issue is about to change radically at this exact time ?
Perhaps the Enclave finally do prefer some mass-bombing of half-invaded and full-infected lands before coming back themselves on USA soil ?
( Almost if the Enclave really made the New Plague virus as some peoples started to beleive it ! )
Less infected suspiscious peoples and no more chinese invaders to fight against : Everything blows up and all the problems are fixed at once !
Let's say "China did this" : They are really very bad guys, so it is so convenant, isn't it ?

Could it be something enough to bomb everything and to mention after in any archive records that the Alaska invasion end up in Jan 2077 with USA victory, even if not in reality...?
I am quite sure China propaganda is the most aweful of the 2
...But I am pretty sure USA governement would be able of this kind of things too ! :poke:

We are not needing to stay too much close to the canon of FO1, even if some developer really made some kind of mistake here, I guess : Only imagination rules.

Something I plan to address in a coming Fallout 3 mod

Wouldn't a memorial be built only after the battle is over? If so, it would seem that the Anchorage memorial would be the biggest piece of evidence that the US won back Alaska; and then went on to China since they were close anyway.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3262/2540408931_a4d32a17ff.jpg?v=0 isn't an evidence of glory as long as nobody wants to beleive in it, isn't it ?
Well, I don't really try here to change Fallout story, only to imagine something beyond the evidences.
Of course, I haven't enough money to buy Fallout Copyrights and I know my ideas might unlikely to go further than this imagination state whatever (no time for a huge mod bringing any credits to my own version ! ).

The question was "So, China won the Great War ?" and as everybody seem agree to say they didn't, although there are a lot of lacks in the story-line...
I just try to find some breaches to play with : You'll be free to go on thinking the history is what it is looking like in the books and on holodisks, and it may often mostly be the case.
... But, well, wondering if there is nothing else behind what peoples are teaching you isn't systematically some kind of Holocaust denial :
The 11 September plot theory in "http://www.democracynow.org/2006/9/11/exclusive_9_11_debate_loose_change" isn't some aweful slander, only a theory which, indeed, might be shocking for a lot of peoples : According to me, it seems as unlikely to be the truth as the official version was !

Let's back to FO3 official version :

Opening a new battlefield while Alaska one was still hot made USA stuck on the two battlefields , although the Power Armor allow US Army a certain safety in front of the huge amount of chinese soldiers. Things go on like this for monthes but finally US soldiers get back Anchorage (Yes, for true : Everybody let's make a memorial to our great soldiers!)
Problem is the chinese soldiers haven't quit the place without firing the oil resource before. :flame:
We are now in 2077, USA are ruined because of the war as much is China, they have won Alaska but they haven't no more resources and the country is collapsing because of poverty AND the Plague.

Because of bloody riots containements, peoples in USA does no more trust their governement ; even soldiers back from Alaska revolt against the orders to kill their own families.
In the same time, other US soldiers based in China can't go home in an easy way : Not enough resources ; everything is still burning at Alaska Anchorage Line.
US Army is defeated from the inside and China knows it : Time again to send men, but not in Alaska.
First, China will destroy US soldiers campements still on its mainland and then will prepare USA mainland assault.
US governement won't have to explain why US soldiers still in China don't write to their families : Mainly, the families are yet in jail.

The Enclave and the US governement quit the USA mainland in March probably because their spies told them what is about to happen !! :whisper:
In the same time, Anchoral memorial rised up in DC : Don't worry peoples, we won the war, so we will win against the Plague too ! :celebration:
...But no remedy found for the New Plague since the start of the infection many years earlier...
Let's recall it : Plague upcame in 2053 a few years only after the Sierra Army Depot has for new mission to make researches on biological weapons...
Since this time a national quarantine was still set so the virus won't spread around the world but it becomes more and more hard to prevent such a thing and other nations are looking at USA with some ...distrust.

So, here is the 2077 summer situation :
USA are totally on the knees now, a few monthes only after a first victory at Anchorage Line, and are ironically about to be victims of a direct chinese invasion without being able to even ripost.
Governement is in exile, the country is lost. Everything is lost... Except they still have bombs waiting in the space to be triggered.
China won't even think they will ose such a thing, but the Enclave prepared many many bombs ; enough to destroy everything both in China AND in USA.
Then, no more infected peoples, no more invasion ; only friends of them in the vaults, who will survive and help them build all again from scratch the new USA !

Well considering the first expansion we're getting is "Operation: Anchorage" I suspect that we will be getting a lot of answers about some of the Pre-war conditions and politics.

I guess, yes ; I just hope there will be at least some surprises added to the known Fallout storyline (even if it isn't such an unlikely parano?ac plot as mine! :rolleyes: ) and not only some serie of battles and loots the(ir) expansion pack usually propose...
I know making part of a squad cleaning strategic places is a classical way of playing the action Bethesda Softworks is attempting to do in its further game http://www.gamesas.com/fre/games/games_roguewarrior.html ...And I love good fast action games such as Call of Duty, Battlefield, Crysis, Stalker, etc... :gun:
...But well :
1> For now, Bethesda really svcks with action in its games because of the so-poor maneuvrability, the so-bad collisions and the so-delayed actions of the Player !
2> They really svck with all which is affected the combat gameplay(oops I had yet written it ! :twirl: )
3> Fallout isn't a multiplayer game and it just worth to be called "First Person Shooter" : This is almost a (good enough) RPG. So please, Beth' keep this OK in your next exp. pack at least !
4> Bethesda is able to make good stories without taking care of what is politically correct or not : Not so many Cie to ose this today !
5> They also sometimes wonder if peoples won't prefer pay for formatted stories without surprises nor any interest, as long as there are good FX explodes at the end and good soldiers vs bad soldiers :clap:

I am quite sure China won't win the war in their expansion pack and the Player won't even be able to play on China-Side...
Perhaps the China faction will only be raiders' one with uniforms ! :meh:
Of course, USA might still encounter a few difficulties against China (Else where is the challenge ?) and the Player may be able to become friend with some Canadian soldiers not happy to be there. That's the minimum but it would still be a little light, isn't it ?
I know Bethesda is able of the best as much as of the worst, and I am afraid to be very dissapointed, aren't you ? :slap:

As a fellow Ausie, I'm going to (Sadly) agree with Strangelove on this one. Apocalypse Now is about Vietnam, I know you know that, but his movie title was about after a nuclear war, while Apocalypse Now is a war movie. Besides I beat both of you, I'll raise both of you, one Dr. Strangelove, (Should have seen that coming Strangelove :slap: ), and one Mad Max x3. HAHAHAHAH I win. :celebration:

Yeah ok you got me.
I was more focusing on the quote rather then the movie in general, but I concede defeat.

Anyway, as long as an Aussie wins, we all win!!!!!! :celebration:

Damn Aussies, think you win because of a little movie thing :banghead:. Well we save you from the japanese during WW2, Guadalcanol :gun: , anyway, I hope to visit Australia soon. I like aussies

It's not an expansion...

Well personally I like to think we won because everyone loves us too much to want to nuke us (i.e. see your own post fore details) :angel:

The only way to win a nuclear war, is not to participate via either living on the moon or somewhere so isolated that the fallout could never truly reach you, Unless a Radioactive drum suddenly appeared nearby...

I do believe Nuclear Winter has been disregarded, more likely to be a Nuclear Autumn I can't find the post where someone said this previously...