Moriarty did not come from Ireland. He might have been of Irish descent, but was born in the Capital Wasteland.

I was just joking about Moriarty in the IRA and Tenpenny as a MI6 agent lol ,but now that i think about it it would be a funny mod

yup, its something like 40% of chinese live in urban areas, and 90% of the chinese live in the eastern 1/3 of their country.

Now looking at how the mainland US and China are very similar in size, with most reports saying the US is slightly larger. If the US was devastated in the war then China most definitely was too.

Sounds logical enough if both countries nuked themselves each other.
In case of an unsupposed plot from The Enclave to mask both USA final defeat & The New Plague problem...
With The Enclave the first to bomb everything that could be somehow different :
Half the bombs on their own country, and thus only half the bombs on China.
Then, as written upper by someone else, a China countermeasure could have occured even before US bombs finally fall on their mainland thanks to satellit surveys
With this hypothesis in mind, instead of the more classical boxe match every simple minds may prefer, even with more efficient bombs owned initially by the Enclave / US side, you would have then USA territories a lot more nuked than China mainland...

And about rebuilding the countries, let's also keep in mind chinese farmers are actually used to work in an old middle-age fashion, and they manage to survive hardly without all the technology we are the slaves of, in Occident.
According to you, who will the first to rise up again WITHOUT the help of the machines ? :brokencomputer:
No more pizzas, nor hamburgers, nor video games, nor cars, nor planes, nor TV, nor kitchen-robots, nor micro-waves :
How many of us wouldn't just turn mad after having had the lives we had since we're born ?
Take any animal born in a zoo in which men just always took care of him, and then release him in some wild environnement.
Do you thing he'll survive ? :turtle:

...And what about Anchorage ? It is quite hard to know how many bombs would have been launched there on these iced bloody rocks.
How many US soldiers were still there, while they had to get back in USA to survey civilian riots and while chinese soldiers were supposed to get back to their own mainland ?
What about the hypothesis of the burning-(s)oils, and the perhaps not-so-lost war by the chinese soldiers , perhaps just waiting the right hour ?
How many chinese soldiers were still in Canada while the Enclave propaganda was still saying "Watch OUR TV-News, and look at our glorious statue in DC because we REALLY won the war at The Anchorage Line - And think also to give us some money to re-build our shiny country" ?
...And in the very last days before the final bombing, how many chinese soldiers might even have start to walk on the US mainlands ?
Of course, these possible soldiers with all their possible weapons (...We can find by thousands everywhere in FO3 through ALL Washington DC streets !!! ) might have just been nuked as everyone else within the Enclave "Hell Bombing".

...China destroyed as much as USA ? Well, without the Enclave Plot Theory, it makes sense. But even if a theory is finally wrong, it shouldn't be just skipped as long as there are no evidences it is.
If you are coming from USA, it is perhaps something you just won't want to beleive an instant, because you feel too much patriotic for it, but let's be serious :
Anything is still possible here ; even China finally only half-destroyed while USA would be totally destroyed.
I am a french dude, and I just wouldn't have any real preference about the issue of such a fight - everything would be too bad according to me - :
My national motto is : "Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood" ;
Let's talk about the Brotherhood an other day as noone seems to know really what it is, whatever is the country, but I guess there are too much equality problems in USA and too much freedom problem in China so I wouldn't like anyone of these 2 winning such a war ! :shakehead:

By the 50s, Brazil was beginning to turn into a industrial country like today. It would't surprise me if by 2040 is probrably one of the richest countries in the world. And South America is not just "jungle or desert and a few mountains." South America is full of resources, and S?o Paulo is one of the greatest metropolis in the world. Brazil, Argentina and Chile aren't Banana Republics since the fifties.





I'm Brazilian, but I'm being impartial here: I think that if there's a country with most likely chances to survive a nuclear holocaust, it would be Brazil. The famine, mutants and climate change would make the country go crazy, but I think some remant of the Brazilian would still exist, either as a Enclave-like organization or maybe as a NCR-like state. That NCR-like state would probrably either exist in the South (lots of industries, good arable land) or in Amazon (LOTS of water and resources). The northeast and the middle-west would probrably turn into a big desert. The southeast would probrably turn into something akin to the Capital Wasteland, except with less Super Mutants. That's it, assuming Brazil would't be nuked. If it was, then all bets are off.

I once wrote a fanfic that happened in Post-Nuclear Brazil in the Fallout Universe. In that Universe, Brazil became a world power (just like the military governament said we would be in the during the Economic Miracle - The Country of the Future), along with Argentina. Then the Resources Wars began and both countries annexed their neighboors and fought eachother, building nukes and creating powerful armies. Then they nuked eachother to death. After the wars, Amazon became a mix of Savana and jungle-hell where the rainforest and the dangerous mutant animals constantly threaten to overrun the surviving settlements, but water is kinda plentyful. The northeast became a hellish desert, akin to California. The Middle-West became a desert almost devoid of people. The Southeast became a giant destroyed megalopole dominated by the organized crime, akin to the Capital Wasteland and the South became a frozen-hell and desert at each half of the year, with rare patches of fertile land that are fought over between new nations.

No-one wins in a global nuclear holocaust

i checked the vault wiki, alaistar tenpenny came from europe, directly

He did, but it's just as destroyed as the United States, or more.

And some of it looks like it has been at least once...

Africa would have definitely been nuked:

Most of Africa in the world of Fallout, would still be under some form of colonial administration. It is therefore, very safe to assume, that most of the nations of Africa would have had forward deployed nuclear weapons on their soil.

True, and even if Africa was independent after the divergence, no country there would have any chance against a invasion by the Europeian Commonwealth or the bickering states during the resource wars. Maybe South Africa, who managed to produce honest-to-god nuclear weapons, but they destroyed them after the end of Apartheid, I believe. If South Africa was independent after the divergence, it would probrably progress in a way not alike current South Africa, except they would't destroy their nukes, which would stop any invasion.

Note the key word here: Propaganda.

i was about to say the same thing


i dont think its really possible to win in a world wide global nuclear war....everyone loses

I would think that if, South Africa had come into its own as an independent country...it much like its brethren in Rhodesia, would have retained nuclear weapons, and no doubt would still be apartheid nations.

basicly if i was china i would aim all my guns at U.S canada U.K Then Europe then the rest at Australia...

Then after the exchange it would be down to the smaller colonies of the previous british/french/german empires to take nuclear revenge..

south afrca would probably strike back

whats left of australia/ new zealand

on the down side im thinking middle east would try to cover these like IRAN Ect

not too sure where latin america would fall into all this though

South Africa or Rhodesia(if they tacked on to the South African nuclear weapons program), would probably have flung a nuke or two, at the UK(A slap at the British, for the Boer War). As for Australia/NZ...they may have had British or American forward based nukes on their territory...and as for Latin America....Argentina would have been the only nation, which would have pursued a nuclear weapons program.

my knowledge of the boer was is a little hazy, I just assumed as a previous german province they would help there brethrin and it allies back in Europe.

as for the argentinains .. thats just great news lol

Afrikaner's are not German, they are Dutch in origin. As for their support of Europe, the South Africans would want little to do with Europe.

I think China probably got it worse, your dealing with some left over commandos/infiltration forces that certainly haven't received any backup.

It seems the US won, because frankly the US goverment still seems to be on it's feet to some extent. Both The Enclave and Brotherhood of Steel being remnants of the US goverment.

Otherwise yes, Liberty Prime was never activated. But that was a super weapon, not nessicarly the only super weapon either. The way it seemed to me was that the US was doing extremely well, it's just we apparently waited too long.

Think of it this way, all criticism of our leaders aside could anyone see either Bush OR Obama throwing a pre-emptive attack on China while they are building up their military? (which is going on now)

Europe tends to ignore the barbarians at the gate, we always wait for an ideal solution that never comes and act at the last possible moment.

That's how things seem to me.

>>>----Therumancer--->





>>>----Therumancer--->

The Brotherhood of Steel is not a remnant of the government. They are descended from soldiers who actually rebelled against their government even before the bombs fell.

Lefties, greeniess and do gooders? I wouldn't describe myself as any of those things. People were against the MAD policy because it was highly flawed. It is based on several assumptions.

Second-strike capability

* A first strike must not be capable of preventing a retaliatory second strike or else mutual destruction is not assured. In this case, a state would have nothing to lose with a first strike; or might try to preempt the development of an opponent's second-strike capability with a first strike (ie. decapitation strike).

Perfect detection

* No false positives (errors) in the equipment and/or procedures that must identify a launch by the other side. The implication of this is that an accident could lead to a full nuclear exchange. During the Cold War there were several instances of false positives, as in the case of Stanislav Petrov.
* No possibility of camouflaging a launch. The use of stealth technology in for instance aircraft such as the B-2 bomber makes this assumption less likely to be fulfilled.
* No means of delivery that does not have the characteristics of a long range missile delivery, i.e. detectable far ahead of detonation. Again this assumption is challengeable with for instance stealth aircraft but also with other means, such as smuggling weapons to the target undetected. A close range missile attack from a submarine would also negate this assumption, as would positioning the weapons close to the intended target (exemplified in the Cuban Missile Crisis).
* Perfect attribution. If there is a launch from the Sino-Russian border, it could be difficult to distinguish which nation is responsible and, hence, against which nation retaliation should occur.

Perfect rationality

* No "rogue states" will develop nuclear weapons. Or, if they do, they will stop behaving as rogue states and subject themselves to the logic of MAD.
* No rogue commanders will have the ability to corrupt the launch decision process.
* All leaders with launch capability care about the survival of their subjects.
* No leader with launch capability would strike first and gamble that the opponent's response system would fail.

Inability to defend

* No shelters sufficient to protect population and/or industry.
* No development of anti-missile technology or deployment of remedial protective gear.

Mutual

* There is evidence to suggest that the Soviets planned to fight nuclear and conventional wars simultaneously. If they did not regard a nuclear engagement as fatal, MAD would have been unable to deter them.

Soldiers were the US Goverment, and as I pointed out, they turned rogue during the war due to some kind of conflict with the scientists they were working with.

They rebelled so late into things that they wound up taking a decent chunk of the remaining resources with them (lots of powered armor for example).

President Eden even points out in his broadcasts that the Brotherhood Of Steel is a remnant of the US military, or claiming to be one. "Don't be fooled by their so-called ties to the US military" or whatever.

But yes, the conflict between what remains of the fragments of the goverment (Enclave = legitimate goverment, BoS = rogues who went independant for what they saw as the greater good).

>>>----Therumancer--->

Well, the thing is that as much as Aussies and New Zealanders like to portray themselves as likely survivors, Australia is hardly a neutral entity and has a decent military. It's also famous for having the back of the US and other Democratic powers. Only a fool would overlook Australia in this kind of a conflict. Especially seeing as there is no way of telling what we might have "visiting" the region at any given time. New Zealanders seem to want to try and stay out of everything and any major comittments and play with all sides to get the best benefits for New Zealand. I'd imagine the Kiwis would probably try and stay out of this, but a lot of them that I talk to on WoW are always saying, they are likely to wind up getting nailed anyway, being right next to Australia.

As far as The Middle East goes, it all depends on what is down there after The Resource Wars. Given what the culture is like down there, how was it pacified? What kind of military forces were left behind to control those resources before they dried up? Were these forces turned into regional sattellite bases? The area could be hit very, very hard or not at all. Any way it goes you've got Isreal and India down in that neck of the woods both of whom are nuclear powers that are more or less allies of the US. Lots of missles are going to be going in that direction too.

-

When it comes to Africa I recommend reading "Farmham's Freehold" for some possible inspiration (a really messed up story).

Spoilers:


The basic premise of this Robert Heinlan story is that there is a nuclear exchange between the US and Russia. A giant space based bomb falls on this guy's fallout shelter where he is hiding with some friends and family, this bomb projects the shelter into the future where the people get to witness the aftermath.

Africa is forgotten by the major powers during their exchange, since there was nothing there worth nuking. Despite a constanty bloodbath the problems dividing Africa finally recede and being more or less intact it becomes THE pre-eminant world power. It then proceeds to invade the shattered remnants of the rest of the world and ethnically cleanse the non-black population, except for a handfull of survivors that they breed down to the size of midgets to render physically powerless, and use as slaves and food since they really get into cannibalism despite their technology.

It goes back and forth about racism on all sides (which is what the story is about, which is why it's true science fiction as opposed to just a work of fantasy) and has the general motif of "Power Corrupts". Given unbridled power any group of people is going to dominate another, and the longer it goes on unopposed arguably the worse the excesses become. Very interesting story that you can't do justice to in a synopsis.

At any rate, the basic premise of Africa remaining relatively unscathed during an exchange seemed like it could happen. I very much doubt things would turn out like they did (ie a complete freak show) since the whole story was a commentary on racism and other human issues.

The difference is that the Brotherhood never claimed to be a remnant or a continuation of the US Government, despite their military heritage. And, while not actually a descendant of the government, the faction that resembles the actual US government the most is the New California Republic, which has its problems, but is an actual democracy.

Actually I'm not sure about this. They never claim it directly to your character, but given that The Enclave feels the need to circulate counter-propaganda about their ties to the US military leads me to believe that they definatly do try and wander around and tell people that they are remnants of the old goverment and what's more it works well enough in getting them support that The Enclave feels the need to specifically counter it.

Of course, arguably this could be the result of Elder Lyons in paticular given his attitude compared to the mainstream BOS and it's seperatist policies. If asked "why are you the good guys" I figure they have to tell people something. The regular BOS just doesn't care enough to claim anything I'd imagine since other than gathering technology they don't care who lives and dies (and I can't help but wonder at what point the hard liners think they would have enough tech to finally do something, which is probably why Lyons broke from the flock, along with the Fallout: Tactics chapter, albeit at differant times it seems).

>>>----Therumancer--->