Well the C&C module affects the guilds and how you advance (expanding on those themes) while it is the EQR pluggin that expands the options on how vanilla quests are completed. You could use one without the other.

Seems to me though that their names should be reversed. The only real consequence of not gaining reputation and skills in the guilds is you don't advance - while the way quests turn out could have more consequences.

I am somewhat slightly confused by this thread XD. I've only played his Blackwood Company version.

That is a completely different mod.

It still uses the choices and consequences scheme though ;o.


mmmm yeah, I'm thrown off by this XD.

I PM'ed him, let's see what's gonna come out of this.

As a side-project, I was thinking of maybe making an optional ESP that adds real "choices", such as joining some guilds preventing you from joining another, or at least preventing you from rising far in the ranks of the others after you joined one.
A least restrictive option would be to reward loyalty: if you show exclusivity to your guild by not joining others or doing missions for others, you might be eligible for special rewards.
But I'm not promising anything here, if I can release my C&C and EQR bugfixes, that will already be a big step.

Good idea. The Thieves Guild quest Misdirection would be a nice opportunity to show your true colours. Unless it already is that way in vanilla or with C&C?
My character is very torn about the whole deal. On the one hand she wants to lift the curfew on the Waterfront and she needs to talk to Armande about a couple of things, but she doesn't want to risk being expelled from the Mages Guild.

Yeah just to pop in and say while I am pretty sparsely seen around here nowadays I do still check in every few weeks even if I don't post anything. It's still possible that I might get bitten by the modding bug again (like if I go overseas for 6 months by myself again).

At the moment it has been so long since I've worked on the mod that I've kind of forgotten a lot of what I had originally done...which kind of makes me an outsider to my own mod. Unfortunately as a consequence of that I find myself unable to help out responded to questions about bug fixes or problems. I think I did mention a few months ago when migck was working on the mod that I don't mind if others want to work on it and I'll help them upload the new versions when they are ready.

I also think I'll just throw in another comment about the name of the mod for those wondering, originally it was based of the Enhanced Quest Roleplaying mod but I needed to change the name of the mod to differentiate them. The original plan was to overhaul a large number of the vanilla quests to allow different paths through them but after accidentally deleting an npc one night (well I didn't delete him, he just 'got deleted somehow') I decided to tear out all those changes and focus upon the guild stuff that I had already started to implement. Since I had already given called it that name and didn't want to change it again it stuck. I think I said this before but it was probably like two years ago.

Oh, also feel free to create threads for my mods in my absence.

As you can see Lingwei was fast to reply . I'll be releasing my fixes as C&C&EQR 1.2, hopefully within two weeks. Lingwei will upload them to TESNexus and to PES. Afterwards, I'll see if people have reported other easy to fix bugs, or maybe someone else will want to get his own fixes in.

Note to self (and to anybody that wants to do changes to the mod): always read the TESCS wiki sections about anything you might touch - the CS is very buggy and you can break things when everything looks fine. And, always clean up with TESEdit after doing any change in the CS.

Well this is all very good news - glad I started the new thread.

As far as ideas for guild restrictions - I don't think the Dark Brotherhood would mind if you joined any of the other guilds - as long as your real loyalties are with them. Sleeper agent.

But I agree just getting bugs fixed would be a great start.

I'd also sure like to see more journal entries and prods or hints with some of the C&C side of things - was at a loss a few times (even with the mod not working right).

I'd also like to see the mods remain separate for now.

Lets see what else? Most of the evil choices in quests really don't seem to amount to much.

cool beans

I'm confused. I thought it was EQR that affected vanilla quests, and C&C that affected the guilds. Also, that the later developer of the mods, who combined the two, then issued a statement saying that he'd made a mistake, and split the mods once again. That would make http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14560 and http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12828 the respective latest versions of the mods, according to their current designer--who seems to have dropped the ball.

But C&C seems to break nothing, and EQR breaks several vanilla game quests.

If I'm wrong on all this, please advise.

I'm still using the last versions Lingwei made. Both C&C alter vanilla quests, but C&C mostly (only?) deals with map markers and directions, while EQR (which should load after C&C) is the one that makes more profound changes. I haven't noticed EQR breaking any quests yet. Can you give some examples?

There's http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=955415&st=0. You'll note that Ayleid People for example points out:



There's more in the thread. I'm under the impression that Migck never fixed the EQR stuff, but concentrated on C&C. Can you please tell me if I'm mistaken in this?

Regarding Sons of the Father Quest, is the alternative ending that you steal back the sword and give it to Fathis Ules? If so, that explains why the quest did not finish in my game.

Another thing that C&C could fix is the slight weirdness about the Mages Guild quest Liberation or Apprehension. My character was told Traven himself had a task for when she was only rank 3 in the guild, but you need to be rank 5 to legally enter the Tower Council Chambers and Traven would only give the task when I was rank 4. So it's all a bit inconsistent, especially considering this is one of the quests you are specifically told that time is of the essense (although it of course not really is technically).

I haven't looked at Migck's version, though, since I started the game with Lingwei's version.

Then you're using the separate C&C and EQR mods, since those were Lingwei's. Would it be useful to have someone take up the slack on EQR, first? C&C appears to work fine.

Yes, that would probably be a good idea. But since I don't know how much works Migck did, it's hard to say for sure.
EQR touched 27 quests, all of which C&C also touched, but C&C only deals with map markers.

I was not too happy about Migck removing the various settlements (at least three) that C&C included. It would have been better to leave them in and perhaps add dialogue and possibly quests.

Personally, if I was too tackle this I would not remove anthing, but would incorporate the fixes Micgk did and work from there.

My impression from his comments was that Migck focused entirely on C&C, and was planning to fix EQR afterward.



I haven't heard from him since he popped up saying he was going to get back on C&C, then vanished once more. School was the culprit, I believe. But I agree: it would be nice to know exactly what he did to C&C. Barring that, Lingwei's original is playable; I used it myself without problems for a while, though I'll admit I didn't get much beyond the mage guild quests.

But as it's EQR that kills the vanilla quests, and Micgk didn't touch it, Lingwei's original would seem a good place to start.

The last version that Migck put out re-seperated C&C from EQR again, so that they were separate again.

I think this is a good idea because I've had to uninstall EQR to get past an impasse and that had minimal effect while if I had to do that C&C then I'd have to do a lot of catching up and then probably wouldn't.

Since C&C and EQR are likely to stay broken for a while still, I wonder if we could take some stopgap measures, such as:

- For EQR, move out with TES4Edit the known buggy quests in a separate ESP, until they can be fixed and merged back.

- For C&C, make a master file (.esm) that contains the reputation/certification variables and the certification documents, so that if you encounter a broken quest or something similar, you can disable Choices and Consequences.esp but leave the master enabled. This way you could bypass the buggy section, but still keep your reputation and certification status and the diplomas you gathered.
Potential problem: everybody's progress would be again reset to zero due to moving stuff from the .esp to a different file. Unless variables are restored using the console.

Does it sound feasible? And would it be useful?

RELZ: C&CandEQR 1.2

I've fixed a few things, and I think it's time I release a new version of C&C&EQR. More fixes may or may not come, depending on my free time.

I uploaded both a full version and a patch http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=92126403d1868754e7ba8e3c6e11ce20c895fe5e601c9f0ab8eada0a1ae8665a. I've asked Lingwei to upload them to TESNexus.

Changelog for 1.2:
- Reorganised the files a little bit so they're easy to install with BAIN
- Cleaned and "undeleted and disabled" all esps (I forgot to check the compatibility plugins for SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery and FCOM, contrary to what the readme says).
- (C&C) Ensured the player gets the certification and reputation topics even if he activates (or reinstalls after a clean save) the mod after joining the Mages or Fighters Guild.
- (EQR) Fixed the alternate ending of "No Stone Unturned", so you actually have a choice of who you give the papers to.
- (EQR) Fixed the directions to Redguard Valley Cave you're given in "Sins of the Father": it would send you west instead of east.

I started from scratch with version 1.1 and re-did the fixes I had done in my own esp, and cleaned afterwards with TES4Edit, so it should be ultra-clean.

To upgrade, just replace your current esps and keep playing.

Enjoy! And tell me if you notice any problem.




I read this thread, and it's weird because I find no trace of the alternate ending they mention for Sins of the Father. I wonder if Migck pruned it out, or if he didn't start from the latest EQR Lingwei had worked on?

All in all the situation is very confusing. :ahhh:

EDIT: Another thing to know is that EQR alters many more quests than those listed in the readme. Those not listed are probably only minor description or direction changes, but they can still contain bugs. To give an idea of the job needed to check them all, here's a list of quest records in the EQR esp as listed by Wrye Bash:

QUST  000146A2 DAAzura  000146A3 DABoethia  000146A4 DAClavicusVile  000146AF DAHermaeusMora  000146A5 DAHircine  000146A6 DAMalacath  000146A7 DAMephala  000146A8 DAMeridia  000146B0 DAMolagBal  000146A9 DANamira  000146AA DANocturnal  000146AB DAPeryite  000224EB Dark01Knife  00023DD6 Dark01KnifeFIN  000232CF Dark02Watery  000232D0 Dark02WateryFIN  000232D1 Dark03Accidents  000232D4 Dark03AccidentsFIN  000239E1 Dark04Execution  00023DD7 Dark04ExecutionFIN  000253B9 Dark05Assassinated  000253BA Dark05AssassinatedFIN  000253BB Dark06Wanderer  000253BC Dark06WandererFIN  000253BD Dark07Medicine  000253BE Dark07MedicineFIN  000253BF Dark08Whodunit  000253C0 Dark08WhodunitFIN  000253C2 Dark09RetirementFIN  0002FF1C Dark10Sanctuary  00030203 Dark10SanctuaryFIN  00007BF2 Dark10SpecialWizard  0003005F Dark11Kin  0002FF1E Dark12Harem  0002FF20 Dark13Justice  0002FF22 Dark14Honor  0002FF24 Dark15Coldest  0002FF26 Dark16Kiss  00030060 Dark17Following  00030062 Dark18Mother  00030064 Dark19Whispers  00026DE0 DarkExile  00026DE1 DarkExile2  00026DE4 DarkExile3  0004CE4C DarkVamp  000146AC DASanguine  000146AD DASheogorath  000146AE DAVaermina  02017887 LingEQRUDummyquest  020171AA LingSQ05FIN  0000C03C MG18KingofWorms  000A78CE MG19Alchemy  0001E724 MQ02  0001E727 MQ05  0001E728 MQ06  0001E729 MQ07  0001E72A MQ08  0001E72B MQ09  0001E72C MQ10  0001E72D MQ11  0001E72E MQ12  0001E72F MQ13  0001E730 MQ14  0000C20B MQ15  000ADE3F MQDragonArmor  0003636F MS02  0003AF05 MS04  0002CA50 MS05  00033E93 MS06  0001F426 MS08  00017837 MS09  00017838 MS10  00017839 MS11  00017835 MS12  00031B77 MS13  00017606 MS14  00023E85 MS16  0002B8DB MS16A  0002BA46 MS16B  000224C7 MS18  0002AB4A MS21  0002B19E MS22  0001D21C MS23  00035CA8 MS26  0002E5BE MS27  00016718 MS29  0000C1B8 MS31  00022E5A MS37  00028D83 MS38  0004E936 MS39  0003E933 MS40  00035A95 MS43  00027815 MS45  00007B2E MS46  0002F86B MS47  000224D8 MS48  00028C72 MS49  0003151E MS51  00038ED6 MS52  0008596C MS91  0008596D MS92  00095A68 MS93  00035589 MSShadowscale  000133BF SE01Door  00011F9D SE02  000135EB SE03  00017D0F SE03A  00012105 SE04  0004A755 SE04Shell  0001351B SE05  000120E9 SE06  000120EA SE07  000135EC SE07A  000135ED SE07B  000135B4 SE08  00013564 SE09  0001354B SE10  000135B2 SE11  0001383C SE12  00015641 SE13  00066EBE SE34  00044C44 SE35  00061C51 SE36  000452EA SE37  0004340C SE38  00042B9C SE39  000790CF SE40  0006D602 SE41  00073236 SE42  00071FE1 SE43  00078512 SE44  00078513 SE45  00081DD5 SE46  00177A31 SQ01  00181C6B SQ02  00185FE8 SQ03  00185FE9 SQ04  00185FEA SQ05  00185FEB SQ06  00185FEC SQ07  00185FED SQ08  00185FEF SQ10  000355E1 TG01BestThief  0003486D TG02taxes  00034EA2 TG03Elven  000BF01C TG04BloodPrice  00035DE0 TG04Mistake  000BF01D TG05BloodPrice  00036333 TG06Atonement  000BF01E TG06BloodPrice  000BF020 TG07BloodPrice  00036334 TG07Lex  00036335 TG08Blind  000BF022 TG08BloodPrice  00036336 TG09Arrow  000BF023 TG09BloodPrice  000BF025 TG10BloodPrice  00036337 TG10Boots  00036338 TG11Heist  0003FD3F TGDirections  0001EE46 TGStolenGoods  0018BA2B TrainingAcrobatics  0018BA2A TrainingAlchemy  0018BA2C TrainingAlteration  0018BA2D TrainingArmorer  0018BA2E TrainingAthletics  0018BA2F TrainingBlade  0018BA30 TrainingBlock  0018BA31 TrainingBlunt  0018BA32 TrainingConjuration  0018B197 TrainingDestruction  0018BA33 TrainingHandtoHand  0018B2F9 TrainingHeavyArmor  0018BA34 TrainingIllusion  0018BA35 TrainingLightArmor  0003C168 TrainingMarksman  0018BA36 TrainingMercantile  0018BA37 TrainingMysticism  0018BA38 TrainingRestoration  0018BA39 TrainingSecurity  0018BA3A TrainingSneak  0018BA3B TrainingSpeechcraft

Thanks for this - I'm certain I can give feedback soon on this.

Also for more info for the EQR compatibility - check out Petrus and My communication at the end of the last thread.

thanks again

Thanks a bunch, Gabba. :celebration:

Thanks, I read that. I am a (part-time) member of the BOSS team, and a few weeks ago I moved EQR at the top of the quest list, so any quest mod (or unique landscapes, or...) can overwrite its changes. That's what Lingwei suggested in his readme.

Is there's a specific bug with the Whom Gods Annoy quest in EQR? If so you can report it here (use spoiler tags generously ), and I'll fix it after I've done it. If it's part of the main quest who knows when I'll get to it, but if its a side quest you could always give me a subtle hint such as "go to this inn" - if you're in a hurry to get it fixed.

Note to self: the quest A Brotherhood Betrayed seems broken in EQR. Edit2: never mind, it's not, at least since C&CandEQR 1.1.

I forgot - if one is using FCOM do they install both of the EQR compatibility patches? cant find in readme.

Not sure and in my current version I'm using I'm not using the OOO patch - yet maybe that is wrong. On the other hand it seems the OOO patch would be inclusive with the FCOM patch.

thanks

Those two compatibility patches don't do the same thing at all: it's obvious if you look at the Details... of the esp with Wrye Bash's right-click menu:

Enhanced Quest Roleplaying - OOO.esp

CLOT  001885C9 NecromancerRobe  02005685 XNecrocloakOOO  02006F2D XnecrorobeUOOOQUST  000146A3 DABoethia  000146A4 DAClavicusVile  000146A5 DAHircine  000146A6 DAMalacath  000146A7 DAMephala  000146A8 DAMeridia  000146B0 DAMolagBal  000146A9 DANamira  000146AA DANocturnal  000146AB DAPeryite  000146AC DASanguine  000146AE DAVaermina  0001E727 MQ05  0003636F MS02  00035CA8 MS26  0002E5BE MS27  00036334 TG07Lex  0001EE46 TGStolenGoods  0018BA2B TrainingAcrobatics  0018BA2C TrainingAlteration  0018B197 TrainingDestructionSCPT  0003C298 MS10Script

Enhanced Quest Roleplaying - FCOM.esp

CREA    00181C6C SQ03CreatureGoblin2Skirmisher    00181C6D SQ03CreatureGoblin3Berserker    00181C6E SQ03CreatureGoblin4Shaman    00009EF6 SQ07CreatureStormAtronach01    00009EF7 SQ07CreatureStormAtronach02    00009EF8 SQ07CreatureStormAtronach03    00009EF9 SQ07CreatureStormAtronach04    SCPT    03019445 LingSQ03BossScript  

So in short, yeah, if you have FCOM you need to install both esps.

Well all the functions of Faction Reputation appear to be working. Bandit fingers appear to be added to any bandit, so that works even with mod added bandits.

What doesn't work so well is creature skins from mod added animals and mod added skins from vanilla animals. For instance I think MMM adds Rawhide skins and none of them are recognized, nor are things like leopard or pahmer pelts (what heck ever a pahmer is - looks like a horse with a cat head).

So these types of pelts often drown out the pelts of vanilla (the recognized pelts) making the gathering of these things more tedius and lengthy. Wondering if there is a way to recognize pelts from mods?

thanks for working on this Gabba!