No.

1. Moreno is about 60 and Gannon says that he's spent more time out of the Enclave than in it.

2. Kreger says that he hasn't been in the Remnant's Bunker for decades.

It is very likely that the fall occured 25-35 years before 2281 with my bets being closer towards the mid-30's.

We're already running into the difference of opinion that you believe the Enclavewas some entity which took these devices for their own sake whereas I - if I am truly tasked with finding an explaination - will say that they were destined for the Oil Rig to possibly launch the Hopeville Silos when the war came.

Suffice to say therefore that ICBM launch codes or equipment do not necessarily need to all be in the hands of the Enclave, there is no reason why these things had to be at Navarro, they could have been anywhere and I find it a wasted opportuinity to canonise somewhere else instead.

Is it possible they abandon the Enclave before Navarro fell?

I guess though I don't see why this leap is required, Moreno and even the rest don't strike me as deserter types - you'll notice that Johnson even stuck around. I see no reason why the Remnants would voluntarily leave their only home and source of kinship for a world that nearly killed them and they do literally know next to nothing about. Besides the mostly speak with regret and a lack-of-purpose post Enclave, and I feel that Moreno's anger is most justifyable if they were actually present at the battle as opposed to just hearing it in all those NCR towns that they would of course frequently visit.

To disregard these people's characters and simple reasoning just to move Navarro's fall closer to 2281 and for what? So that the NCR immediately sent the device to the Divide? It is much easier and less damaging to established characters to say that the NCR only re-discovered it in their inventory circa 2277.

Maybe they weren't in Navarro, and when they got word that something had happened, they just flew over to the remnant's bunker.

"For Navarro!" - Moreno's battlecry.

I also recall Gannon saying something like "When the Enclave died, the love inside Moreno burned itself out, now their's just a bitter old man left."

Man alive people they were at the battle of Navarro which likely took place 30 years prior to New Vegas.

Then there's also the "Dear Old Friends Remember Navarro" password, which indicates a sort of reverence befitting a battle they experienced first hand.

I was asving that one for some hypothetical sarcastic post but yes of course, I fail to see how the Remnants even being stationed at Navarro is being questioned.

Wasn't Navarro built after the great war? Again it doesn't hurt to have ICBMs around. So I can't see why the Enclave wouldn't want them. Even if it was for a pre-war reason, that was forgotten after the war.

...
It was a pre-war Poseidon Energy Oil Refinery built in tandum with the Oil Rig.

Perhaps they heard of the Oil Rig being destroyed and Navarro being attacked by the NCR, realized how big of a force they were, and gave up. And I would guess Navarro could've stayed together for up to a decade.



Perhaps they heard nothing about Navarro until years later, realizing that they could've helped. They would feel regret for not helping prevent the lose of their home.

Why are you even questioning whether the Remnants were there? The only reason it was breought up in the first place was to argue that Navarro survived more than the decade post-Oil Rig which I myself have been proposing/defending here?

Gave up what? Are you saying that they were at Navarro or not? Or are you suggesting with "heard Navarro was being attacked" that they somehow heard of this just as the battle began and returned their to fight the NCR only to run away once they had gotten there?

Has evlbastrd hacked your account or something?

But they didn't move into it till they needed to do Offshore things, like open up Mariposa and Vault 13 and go to Arroyo and deal with people in New Reno. So it could be possible that the launch control was on it's way to the Rig, before the Great War. It was delivered to Navarro, waiting to be picked up and sent to the Rig. Great War happened. Enclave forgot about it or saw no need for it.

Which is exactly what I have proposed, I just don't see why it was necessary. Almost like Navarro for it's own sake as just as another ED-E connection where it was not needed.

No, they were there at the Fall of Navarro. Ask Arcade what happened to Navarro and he says "After the Enclaves command structure fell apart it was only a matter of time before Navarro was overunn by NCR forces. My mother and I left with some of the troopers from my dads old unit" He also talks about Moreno saying kiss america good bye when they left.


If you were playing a video game and found a package that had the exact same markings found in location X. You'd bring the package to location X. Stop acting like the NCR behaved any differently then you would have done.


No the stupidity lies with the pre-war government. Who on earth would design a detonator which would trigger a countdown on your own nuclear weapons when brought into close proximity.

I was just saying it could be possible that they were patrolling (or something along those lines) and then they received word that the Oil Rig has been destroyed, while heading back to Navarro they might also of heard that Navarro was under attack. Feeling like it was no hope (due to one of the NCR's men (the Chosen One, if he counts as one of NCR's men that is) destroyed their main base) they decided to wait at a bunker, if they recieved word that the Enclave won they would go back.



:rofl:
No but he starts arguements over everything:

I don't see the big deal. Are you against the whole story of the Divide or this information about it coming from Navarro?

I just look at it as some poetic justice on the Enclave's part.


To have the device which may have caused the downfall of the NCR in the Mojave (via cut supply lines and dead soldiers) come from the very place they captured from the Enclave, is vengeance at its finest.

It may not be necessary, but I find it fitting none-the-less.

Nobody would and to suggest that this is the case makes the whole Fallout Universe seem stupide, there must have been a machine fault or some continued alert status from the old base. To say that the government built it that way with full Old World Blues kitche just weakens everything, the war and the reasons for it have been the centre of Fallout, tacking on a Dr Strangelove-esque herp-derp device is just silly.

I just don't think it was necessary or see why they chose Navarrro as the source of this device. I can only think of it as some tangently ED-E related link which isn't really supported by logic. It's not a big deal, all I am saying that instead of having us all question whether the NCR took decades to realise what they had and this and that; we now have a scenario where the imperialist NCR trust a single courier, who's only affiliation with the NCR was that he was born in what they called their land, with something that leads it back to a Nuclear Missile Silo.

"They do, however, recognize the symbols (American flag, silo stencils, etc.) and recognize it might be tied to the same symbols and markings the NCR found at the Divide."

Someone at the NCR recognised that this had markings specific only to a pre-war ICBM Silo, also consider that the only way that the Silo Stencils could have been recognised is that if some NCR personnel went back to the OSI in Shady Sands or where-ever and recognised them or that the NCR - which would suggest maybe researchers where already at Hopeville - or that someone in the NCR recognised them from reports and files - either way indicating that the NCR was looking into these Silos and knew what they were. So the NCR knew that this device was related to a find of pre-war ICBM and tasked a lone, potentially un-affiliated or sympathetic Courier with this?

I suspect that the US government had it set up so that any detonator in range of the nukes would launch them when the Great War started.

With no Enclave technichian around once the device got within range it attempted to launch them, when none of the silo doors opened they blew up underground.

NCR could have come across other Silos that were used. They could have come across pre-war information about Silos. They could have even captured information from Navarro about Silos. Someone from the Divide, could have been recalled to where ever the device was stored. Came across it and went, "I have an idea of what this is for!" He tells his boss and his boss tells the president and the president goes "We might have the ability to use nuclear weapons!" Then again if that was the case it would have been sent by military people. At the very least that scientist wanted it sent back to his labs or his buddies in the Divide. The Courier could have had a very good reputation with NCR or at least worked for people that do.

I am with Lt. Andronicus on that it's just a way for the Enclave to get some revenge, even though they had nothing to do with it, at all. In a way it's good the Divide was blown up. The NCR would have figured it out sooner or later and would have been incontrol of a large nuclear arsenal. I would have loved them to have it but it didn't work out that way :sadvaultboy:

It was also a way for the Devs to tell us that Navarro was taken in good shape. We knew it was taken but for all we know the Enclave could have blown it up. Now we know they didn't.

Well I assume the silo doors were supposed to open but didn't. But simply a detonator that activates the missiles automatically is no something the NCR coul have forseen.

Its really not a good revenge as the NCR didn't have much of a presence in the Divide until long after Navarro was gone. Now maybe the missiles were intended to target NCR territory but the doors never opened.

I disagree. The number of NCR soldiers in the divide was fairly significant, judging from the amount of Burned Men.

Besides, the destruction of the Divide has been the only thing preventing the Legion from being defeated following the loss of the First Battle of Hoover Dam. The Divide has wiped out "whole platoons of NCR soldiers" and has cut off a main route of supply.

Thus prolonging the war in the Mojave and leading to more NCR deaths and (possible) defeat.

So the Enclave indirectly helped Caesar's Legion.