I forgot that. Haven't played it in awhile due to fps issues. I now have a newer graphics card and it is on my list to re-try.

If you've played Fable II, right at the beginning is the gypsy camp which has a few different wagons, also, one of the first quests in the game is to go kill a nearby bandit, Thag. In his camp is a cage-wagon with captured traveling merchants in it.

Some of those wagons would fit in perfectly, I'm trying to find pics, but am not having any luck.

http://www.5min.com/Video/Fable-2---Thags-Head-96571336 - right around the 5 1/2 minute mark is some footage of the wagon-cage, poor lighting, but maybe you can see it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2czq9-3skCY - 8:15 gives a quick shot of the wagon-cage, better lighting but worse angle, again, just an idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhKSOQ6F6WM - 3:30-4:30 gives good lighting, good quality (be sure to hit the High Quality button). Good lighting, lots of angles. Haha, probably don't need to worry about looking at the other two videos. But this is what I'd envision for a traveling circus cage.

Ah, actually, that would work very well to have a couple linked together, each with a vicious creature to boot. I was thinking that perhaps the freaks could be tied to one of the wagons, sort of to reflect the inhumane treatment of their conditions.

Also, a freak I just thought of that would prove pretty interesting: A man that was left completely half skeleton-half Breton or something of the like. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to make in Max with the mapping of both skin and bone textures, but I'm sure no new animation would be needed, which I'm sure is always a plus.

And in terms of acrobatics, Westly mentioned something about a French mod on WiWiiland that has several animations, including acrobats. The file is too large for me to consider looking through and extracting the files myself, but if someone could take the time to do that, it would be most appreciated.

I'd take a look through them if I could find them on Wiwiland (my inner child reeeeaaallly wants to say something smart-@$$ed here). Anyone know the direct link? I think I have a collection of other animations somewhere else on disk that I can look through, too. Don't remember where I got them. Way too much junk on disks to properly keep track of it all. Need a blu-ray burner.

Well Google can translate some of it, I can't find anything relevant. Is there a name of this file? Location: http://74.125.95.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://morromods.wiwiland.net/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DWiwiland%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US%3a%6ffficial%26hs%3DyuX%26sa%3DG&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhh_ATTOSr9azld5z1ifittKBxX_dw

did you mean these?

http://209.85.225.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://morromods.wiwiland.net/spip.php%3Farticle414&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAng%25C3%25A9lus%2Bwiwiland%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgD2eYrfI16YjEpXMb1FsFIsh5zew

http://209.85.225.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://morromods.wiwiland.net/spip.php%3Farticle753&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAng%25C3%25A9lus%2Bwiwiland%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgOx_maoh2K1eAaXvPFN3xTrJmZuw

I've never played Glory Road, but I looked through the files and did see some neat stuff.

As for different circus' in different areas, that makes sense. I don't think that Vvardenfell could support more than two or three, though, and even that's a lot of work. Maybe it would be simpler to have them 'upgrade' the attractions depending on the location they are in. For example, in Seyda Neen, you would get the bare basics. Some animals, clowns, etc. But in a larger, more sophisticated place like Vivec, you could add the calliope, maybe a carousel if it can be made, a balloon ride, etc. This would probably be much cooler if it were Children of Morrowind compatible. Throw a bunch of the noisy rugrats running around. Its well beyond me, but I'm willing to help out where I can.

While I'm thinking about it, has anyone done a beetle with animations? I think it would be cool to see some of the wagons getting pulled by giant stag or rhinoceros beetles, guars, etc.

I also found these pics online for a more upscale vardo (gypsy wagon) that you might see in Vivec or bigger cities:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Skinjack/Gypsy_Cart_Bk_DO_Lg_jpgd3f0fd42-55d.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Skinjack/Gypsy_Cart_Int_Fr_Bowl_Lg_jpg42763f.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Skinjack/Gypsy_Cart_Lighting_C3_550_jpg9017e.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Skinjack/Gypsy_Cart_Sid_Bk_DO_Lg_jpge54c0f92.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Skinjack/gypsy_cart_view1_jpg0d098c29-8cca-4.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Skinjack/gypsy_cart_view3_jpgbbb64f10-b5ef-4.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Skinjack/gypsy_cart_view4_jpg32296466-1774-4.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Skinjack/Gypsy_Wagon_Pony_400_jpgb732ae34-94.jpg

Definately looks like something Princess Stomper would come up with.

This looks like a pretty cool idea. I don't know if it's available somewhere else as a resource, but the Arktwend TC has a gypsy-ish wagon in it. It's a bit small, but it would probably be good for the performers to live in, although you couldn't use it for the cages. It would at least save the trouble of making a new mesh and textures, if you can get permission to use it. If I recall correctly, it looks a lot like the pics Skinjack just posted. I don't know how useful it would be though, since you would probably have to download the whole thing to get it and get permission from the makers, who are German.

The newest Arktwend forum thread:
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=991476

If nothing else, a quick post on their thread should tell you if it's worth looking in to.

this doesn't seem like the kind of wagon you'd see accompanied with scarred or mutilated carnies.

With the right textures it would.

I say have one awesome circus, you just need to decide outside of which town will it be.

Eh, I don't think that'd have the same feel that Vvardenfell gives off. Maybe you could have a more structured circus in Mournhold, but with the kind of people that would be with this circus, I have a feeling staying in one place would be a bit dangerous (guards inspecting the freaks' conditions, looking into files about the carnies' pasts, etc.).

@ghanima: Anything to get this project on the road is greatly appreciated. I can't deal with large files on my computer, especially not something as huge as a TC, but if somebody could extract the mesh and texture from the mod, I would be more than willing to make it fit the part.

@Skinjack: There are beetle creatures in Piratelord's creature mod, so that could be something to look into. His site probably has a picture or two of them if anybody knows where it is.

@NZdawghaus: Yes, those are the ones I was referring to.

Hmmm, Arktwend. I think I've downloaded it before, but never used it. Might be worth looking through.

As for "this doesn't seem like the kind of wagon you'd see accompanied with scarred or mutilated carnies", as blake said, with the right textures... I've seen a couple different shots online with some older/beat up/haunted vardos that looked pretty cool. You could probably use one of the textures for the wood in shacks/buildings from Seyda Neen, Raven Rock, etc., add a splash of faded color here or there and voila... I know Glory Road has some circus-y posters that could be hung on their sides, or even used as the base for the splash of color, like an old, faded mural.

Why do I always forget Mournhold? Hmph. Maybe because I've never been there? :shrug: Maybe I should play this game all the way through someday. It might actually be a good location for a 'permanent' circus, if one could find the space that didn't conflict with the more popular mods out there. You could always do a number of different circus' based on theme, i.e. Telvanni, Imperial, etc. Distinct to each region, as I think was mentioned before. Of course, what would a Telvanni vardo look like? Heh, mushroom on wheels. Sorry. I'm seeing flashbacks to the Smurfs when I was a kid.

My thought was that the whole band of gypsies or whatever we decide they are is probably from a specific region, but in order to make their profits large enough to continue their endeavors, they were forced to separate the troupe into 2-3 sects. I don't know how popular a Mournhold one would be; I personally never go there, so it would be kind of pointless. But I wouldn't be working on this mod for just myself, so I suppose it's up to the community.

Yeah, that's why I always say Vivec. I always go to Vivec. Probably because I'm running VA's texture replacer and I think it looks neat. Of course, I slow down to about 5fps on my computer, so it takes me four days to wander around it. Maybe that's why it seems I'm always there. I'm a prisoner to the low stats of my PC. But I agree. Maybe the community should decide on just one randomly moving circus or a couple of different ones.

I think one randomly moving circus would be really cool. Just not knowing where you'll run into this band of weirdos next would be really cool. However, I think it would keep the mod interesting to see new attractions at different locations, so I'm not sure how that'll work if it's just one moving circus. :shrug: I have to say that making it a creepy/cruel circus troupe would be awesome, it would be like playing CarnEvil all over again...

I just realized how entertaining it would be for one of the carnies to ask you to catch a vampire for him to display as a sideshow. There's dozens of minor quest additions we could do.

That is a cool idea. You're right. There is so much potential for a bunch of minor quests. Some 'collect the oddities for me' quests would fit in well with a darker themed circus. Maybe that's what you should stick with, instead of a couple different ones. Then you could have different quests depending on the location the circus currently is. You could always do a carnival mod later, with something for the kiddies. Just ideas.

You could set it so that the mesh is an activator, and when activated it takes you inside the circus. You could then script it so it rotates around towns every 7 days or something.

I really like the idea of the mod. It sounds possible that, if you wanted, you could make it lore friendly. People are amazing creatures!

I'd be happy to help out writing dialog or other contributions. It seems like it could be a very easy, laidback, team project. Twisted circus sounds like a lot of fun, but I like the sound of an interesting circus that isn't creepy all the time...hmmmm

Ah, so we do have someone for dialogue, then? Your contributions would be greatly appreciated, Sam. Now all I need to know is whether we'll have somebody who can map base textures to meshes.

I'm still looking through Arktwend for nifs/textures of the vardo & circus stuff. But a majority of them are in German, I believe. And there are lots of them. I did see what appeared to be a high-wire animation, though. Or was that Glory Road? Eh, one or the other.

Just tell me when it's happening, and what general ideas you have for topics, conversations etc.

This may not be the best thread to bring this up. It may even deserve its own thread. Buuuut.... Towards the beginning of this thread, the Travelling Merchants mod was mentioned, and I used the word snakeoil (love that word, say it with me... s-n-a-k-e-o-i-l...). So I started thinking, what exactly does the term mean, especially in the context that I used it in?

I believe the term snakeoil salesman was coined in the early American frontier days (don't quote me on that), for con artists, charlatans, and frauds who sold worthless goods. So how could we apply that to Morrowind? Well, just imaginge shelling out some coin for a potion of (insert name here). Now, imagine you're out in the wilderness and being attacked by a dozen (insert creature here). Naturally, you down the potion of (insert name here), only to find out its tap water. Or worse.

So, are there any mods out there that do this? Give you nothing for something? I think it would add a new layer of immersion to the game. I'm not sure how you would pull it off. Maybe have the potions/items you purchase have a certain percentage of being worthless, depending on where and from whom you buy them. Or even if you make them yourself. But you won't know they are worthless or harmful until you use them. Maybe a message would come up saying "The potion you drank had no effect." Or worse, "The potion you drank was tainted"., and then have it start doing damage, like poison.

I'm just mentioning it here because, well, a circus/carnival is a good place to pick up a lot of worthless crap for a lot of coin. And it might be a nice little side addition to this mod. Or a completely different one if someone wants to run with it.

Yes, it could be something like that one spellcasting mod I've heard people mention before; where some spells at an early level will backfire if you're not careful or learned enough. I think the potions would have to be named something that sounds really special or rare, like "Elixir for the Weakened Spirit," for a potion meant to restore Willpower, when really it ends up slowly draining fatigue. I think it would be funny to add potions that result in a completely random effect rather than what it is meant for, but I don't think it'd be a good idea to put in too many really dangerous ones. Like if you were to drink the "Water of All-Seeing," thinking it would give you Nighteye, only to have it weaken your immunity to common disease.
I'm not really sure what you could do to make the effects hidden from the player, but I'm sure there must be a way, seeing as it can be done for ingredients if you're not high enough level in alchemy.
This would be a terrific mod on its own, actually, and it would probably take less time and effort to accomplish. If somebody could explain how to hide potion effects, I would get right on this.

Instead of having separately named items, is it possible to add a script or something to potions so that it does the exact opposite of its intent? So instead of healing damage/adding mana, it drains it? You could have it fire based on the type of potion it is, the better the potion, the less chance the script has of activating. Just a thought. I have no clue what is possible in scripting.