For continuation of the other two topics that just got locked.

I honestly see the Empire's side, and don't want it to suffer. But I really find a hard time condoning them violently trying to maintain hegemony over a foreign nation.

The Thalmor will conquer Tamriel!

There, discussion is over!

I am convinced that Ulfric's motives are not for the benefit of Skyrim, but for the benefit of himself. There are numerous examples of people like this in history. Take Adolf Hitler, he was a brilliant speaker, and able to influence people. (like Ulfric) turns out he was a power-hungry maniac. They don't develop Ulfric's character enough for us in the game to know for sure, but I would bet that he will not be a good thing for the people of Skyrim.

Most of the stormcloaks only resist them because of the banning of Talos worship due to the Thalmor. Prior to that, Ulfric and Galmar were loyal to the Empire, as were most of Skyrim's citizens I imagine. The citizens of Skyrim valued the prosperity and security that the Empire brought just like most of the common citizens of Morrowind.

Siding with the Stormcloaks seems to me to be more of a critique of the Empire's relationship with the Thalmor after the Great War rather than any dislike of the Empire's cultural or political ideas.

Adoring Fan for Emperor of Tamriel E4 202. He'll drive out the Stormcloaks and build an arena in every city of Skyrim.

For my own pleasure in TES series, I would love for each race to have it's own country. If I was actually living in Tamriel, I would be Empirial, hands down.

You are attempting civil discourse with backwards hero worshiping savages whose answer to everything is an axe. Amusing.

Faal Bruniikke Bronne tinvaak???

If true, this would mean that A. people who don't know him at all are somehow more correct than the ones closest to him, and B. he maintains this facade even on his own throne with his closest advisors, meaning that he's surrounded himself with people who could kill him at any time if they discovered his true motivations. Also, Hitler was pretty blatantly a power-hungry maniac long before he came into power; he literally spelled out his entire plan in a book written while in prison. It's just that too few people paid attention, and he had many advisors who shared his goals.

I'm sure they did, back when the Empire gave prosperity and security instead of sacrifice and oppression.

In-game, my character used to be a Thalmor justiciar, but her Bosmer girlfriend was killed by one of their purges. She's turned her back on it entirely.

This whole https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8GXSiqjRc4 loves that idea sir and so do i.

Many Imperials in Skyrim and Cyrodiil still worship Talos privately. It was the 'Markarth Incident' that led to the Thalmor taking a more pro-active role in silencing those who openly worshipped Talos. Are you new to the game? I ask because there is a section of the main quest that gives some interesting insights into Ulfric's past history with the Thalmor.

That's pretty cool. I've done a similar thing with my Altmeri sorcerer. He was turned down because of his... dark arts. Fools... Now he just attacks every side of the conflict because he hates everyone.

Yes, that was an Imperial-caused incident, when they made promises they were unable to keep. And yes, I know Ulfric's history.

Wow, comparing Ulfric to Hitler, I'm not even going to bother mentioning Goodwin's law, but seriously wow.

Yea...Ulfric isn't anywhere near hitler...

Yea. Ulfric didn't kill millions for being rejected from art school.

You know that for many years he did exactly what the Thalmor wanted him to do?

Don't go off-topic, please.

Greybeards: Sorry, but you don't meet our requirements.

Young Ulfric: I HATE PEOPLE WITH ROBES!!!

40 years later Ulfric somehow conquers Tamriel and orders anyone caught with a pair of robes to be gassed in a Dwemer ruin. 90% of Tamriel is liquidated!

There actually are many parallels between Ulfric and Hitler in terms of their early lives. Saying that, I don't mean to say that Ulfric committed ethnic cleasning (well, maybe a little in Markarth).

-The Great War = WW1

-White Gold Concordat = the Armistice

-The Markarth incident = the Munich putsch

-The Empire in Skyrim = the Weimar Republic

(Ok, sorry for going off topic, I'll stop now).

So, a failing Empire or a bunch of prideful no-brainers? Choose your poison.

I'm with the Empire. "A united Empire is better for everyone" - if Skyrim secedes from the Empire, then the Empire will likely fall and Skyrim will lay open to Dominion invasion. Or worse.

The way I see it...

Empire

--> Bended knee to the Thalmor.

--> Allowed Thalmor to persecute Talos worshipper via torture and death.

--> Abandoned Hammerfell to its own devices as its way of thanking Hammerfell for the services it rendered during the Great War.

--> Empire arrests Stormcloak soldiers and hands them over to Thalmor if needed.

--> Attempted to execute a bunch of POWs without trial in Helgen. Were it not for Alduin, we would all be dead now.

Stormcloak

--> Composed of mostly Nords.

--> Hates all elves. To those who might say they let an Altmer enter, even a racist person can offer leniency to a few individuals of the group he/she hates.

--> Believes that the Empire has no part in Skyrim anymore, because the Empire they remembered would never submit to evil witch-elves.

--> Ulfric Stormcloak may just be in it for personal glory; murdered a High King that may have been willing to listen.

It all really boils down to what you personally prefer. Do you...

--> Believe Skyrim can handle itself in the inevitable second war with the Thalmor? Do you think Skyrim is justified, that no men should be bending knee to elves, and should be able to do whatever they damned well pleased?

--> Believe that only united, can the Thalmor threat really be neutralized? That the Stormcloaks are just overreacting?

I'd support the Empire and would love to see them pull through and get the Thalmor in round 2. But if they fall, and the Dominion takes over, it would be interesting to see. I loathe the idea of a Stormcloak Skyrim + Hammerfell taking on the Dominion, but that's just me.

I am also banking on the rise of Lord Hevnoraak.

Dinok wah pah joorre.

I'll take the second option.

I really feel a prepared united Empire can wipe out the Thalmor.

An Empire with a proper ruler and the man owned provinces behind it will always be best. We don't need a bunch of "nord smash puny elf with mighty axe" types in power.