Civil War, What Could Have Been? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:14 pm

My mistake, I play the game and study RL history. But I played enough to see what is going on in there. Several hundreds of hours. And I see the state of things.
I walked all the land. Not wanting to choose sides.
But with the time I feel the danger. The danger that guy represent for all. I went to his palace and listened to him. I was horrorized. I listened to his general... then I runned out directly to Solitude. That guy had to be stopped. His head must lie on a pick.

It's pike, and this part of the discussion is done.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:20 pm

I fear you may be right.

I'm hardly ever wrong.

After a thread or two, he'll settle down, as always. These threads basically consist of the Colonel fighting off a bunch of Imperial supporters, while I ask everybody questions and make a couple jokes.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:18 pm

What's funny about that is the Great War book says theygot info from the thalmor they killed in the imperial city and they knew they wiped out the majority of their force. So they knew at the time that they were equally as damaged. So why the hell did they give into the demands knowing that?

That will remain unknown I think.
That all relies on how the negotiators treated it , and what they know at the moment of signing it. Perhaps the Emperor was just scared, and signed it to end it the hostilities for a while. Noone could be in a good mind state after a terrible battle in wich both sides lost LOTS of people.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:59 pm

Sadly, I was not sitted with the signer of neither treatys to know the exact situation of each.
Perhaps Hammerfell was in a better possition to negotiate and the Empire was in a bad shape... a Pirric "victory" never is good.

Or the Empire decided to give up even though they knew how bad the Thalmor were hurt according to the book, and Hammerfell decided to fight on, and they called out the Thalmor on their bluff and got the better treaty because they have stones.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:56 am

It's pike, and this part of the discussion is done.

Yes sorry, english is not my language , I made mistakes in some words. Pike. Corrected.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:05 am

That will remain unknown I think.
That all relies on how the negotiators treated it , and what they know at the moment of signing it. Perhaps the Emperor was just scared, and signed it to end it the hostilities for a while. Noone could be in a good mind state after a terrible battle in wich both sides lost LOTS of people.

Exactly what I think. He made the wrong decision out of fear.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:26 pm

What's funny about that is the Great War book says theygot info from the thalmor they killed in the imperial city and they knew they wiped out the majority of their force. So they knew at the time that they were equally as damaged. So why the hell did they give into the demands knowing that?

They may not have had the info at the time, or maybe it was discovered on a body later. Who knows. Or they thought their own armies were equally destroyed, but I still don't see why they took the Thalmor demands.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:55 am

Or the Empire decided to give up even though they knew how bad the Thalmor were hurt according to the book, and Hammerfell decided to fight on, and they called out the Thalmor on their bluff and got the better treaty because they have stones.

And why they would do that? Seems that some point int what we know is missing there. It have no sense if the case would be plainly that. I dont want to recall RL similar facts...

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:01 am

They may not have had the info at the time, or maybe it was discovered on a body later. Who knows. Or they thought their own armies were equally destroyed, but I still don't see why they took the Thalmor demands.

I think it was the civilian's fear or even the elder council. Maybe even the Emperor. But fear seems likely.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:41 am

Hammerfell was forced to relinquish half their land, that's the reason they fought on till the end.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:21 pm

And why they would do that? Seems that some point int what we know is missing there. It have no sense if the case would be plainly that. I dont want to recall RL similar facts...

Fear, plain and simple. They got punked.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:52 pm

Exactly what I think. He made the wrong decision out of fear.

That is what I belive too. But that does not justify a pure blame on the Empire. Is not that emperor death? They should have united. Ulfric leaded a big army and joined the legion to repel all the thalmor at once when the time was right. Then, who will forbide them to worship talos if the want? But no. He choosed his own way and I blame him for doing that in the less right moment.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:11 pm

OMG, your exploits dont qualify you to rule. And what would an orc or an imperial know of ruling Nords anyway? We're not even from Skyrim and don't know all of its customs. Ulfric does, and can play the politics. I'm done. If you cant see why the dragonborn being High King is stupid, then whatevs. I'm over it.

Umm in most cases your exploits do qualify you to rule. And what makes Ulfric a great leader dude? This guy could not lead his way out of a clear plastic bag. I actually recall him leading his men into an ambush and just barely escaping getting a shave. Ulfrics a fraud who sat on his throne for most of his rebellion. Screw what race the dragonborn is because he/she saved the nords multiple times. Dragonborn Thame of all holds and savior of skyrim becomes high king at the moot 10 times out of 10. You gotta give it to the stormcloaks, dragon of the north, ysmir, all titles held by talos.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:42 am

Hammerfell was forced to relinquish half their land, that's the reason they fought on till the end.

You would think a religion would cause the same level of fight. Maybe Mede wasn't that religious? I wouldn't know.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:26 am

I cant belive I have a point in common with Colonel... this day is historic lol.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:55 am

That is what I belive too. But that does not justify a pure blame on the Empire. Is not that emperor death? They should have united. Ulfric leaded a big army and joined the legion to repel all the thalmor at once when the time was right. Then, who will forbide them to worship talos if the want? But no. He choosed his own way and I blame him for doing that in the less right moment.

Because the Empire showed no signs of fighting them in the 30 years they waited, and all that time consisted of the Talos ban.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:28 am

Umm in most cases your exploits do qualify you to rule.

How does killing dragons qualify you to rule? As for bad mouthing Ulfric, you have no idea what you are talking about. He's shown great aptitude as a leader.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:00 pm

You would think a religion would cause the same level of fight. Maybe Mede wasn't that religious? I wouldn't know.

religion could be done in secret even with all the danger, loosing your families and home isn't the same.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:45 am

religion could be done in secret even with all the danger, loosing your families and home isn't the same.

Religion to a lot of people and me is very much worth dying for.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:36 pm

Because the Empire showed no signs of fighting them in the 30 years they waited, and all that time consisted of the Talos ban.

Perhaps is because Im not a religious man in any way, but the Nords should have know that in the end, they must fight back. And that the only way to do that is to avoid any interlan conflicts and to join forces.
I cant belive how nobody from Skyrim just go to skyrim and sayed "Well, if you are not going to fight the Thalmor we will do"
If Ulfric, instead of using his Stormcloacks chasing Imperial troopers, should have just leaved Torygg alone, selected an army of bloody and crazy Nords and just jumped into Dominion territory.... like Ysgramonr and his 500 !!!
That would have made me thing that Ulfric is a damn HERO , the best of all, the glorious warrior that go to his battle just to defend his beliefs !!!! But no. He is not that guy , sadly.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:11 pm

Umm in most cases your exploits do qualify you to rule. And what makes Ulfric a great leader dude? This guy could not lead his way out of a clear plastic bag. I actually recall him leading his men into an ambush and just barely escaping getting a shave. Aldrich a fraud who say on his throne for most of his rebellion. Screw what race the dragonborn is because he/she saved the nords multiple times. Dragonborn Thame of all holds and savior of skyrim becomes high king at the moot 10 times out of 10. You gotta give it to the stormcloaks, dragon of the north, ysmir, all titles held by talos.

No. Just no. First off, Ulfric defeated Torygg in a challenge. That's something for you.

Second off, the ambush was designed by Tulliuz, one of the best generals the Legion has. After that though, Ulfric has been more successful against him. It is my opinion that Ulfric is using this war to help him learn how to lead, so he can use that knowledge to defeat the Thalmor. Not that he is only in the war for that reason, I'm just saying the war is helping his ability to lead.

Third. NO. The Dragonborn should not lead. His combat exploits doesn't show that he can be a good political leader, or military leader. It just means he is a bad ass killing machine.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:20 pm

The dominion would still likely use Ulfric as a reason to start up the Second Great War, even if he did go rouge with 500 of his friends and charged headlong. There's a big difference between the Snow Elves and the Dominion.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:10 pm

Perhaps is because Im not a religious man in any way, but the Nords should have know that in the end, they must fight back. And that the only way to do that is to avoid any interlan conflicts and to join forces.
I cant belive how nobody from Skyrim just go to skyrim and sayed "Well, if you are not going to fight the Thalmor we will do"
If Ulfric, instead of using his Stormcloacks chasing Imperial troopers, should have just leaved Torygg alone, selected an army of bloody and crazy Nords and just jumped into Dominion territory.... like Ysgramonr and his 500 !!!
That would have made me thing that Ulfric is a damn HERO , the best of all, the glorious warrior that go to his battle just to defend his beliefs !!!! But no. He is not that guy , sadly.

The Empire wasn't going to let anyone fight the thalmor. If that were the case, then they'd have zero reason to arrest Ulfric for worshipping Talos. They'd just let them war against the Thalmor and drop them as a province like they did Hammerfell. But Skyrim is more important to the Empire.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:47 pm

Second off, the ambush was designed by Tulliuz, one of the best generals the Legion has. After that though, Ulfric has been more successful against him. It is my opinion that Ulfric is using this war to help him learn how to lead, so he can use that knowledge to defeat the Thalmor. Not that he is only in the war for that reason, I'm just saying the war is helping his ability to lead.

Third. NO. The Dragonborn should not lead. His combat exploits doesn't show that he can be a good political leader, or military leader. It just means he is a bad ass killing machine.

Maybe on the stormcloak side, which he only gets a nickname and always ends up just a soldier. But on the empire, he becomes a LEGATE (A military rank equivalent to a COLONEL) a officer.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:11 pm

Perhaps is because Im not a religious man in any way, but the Nords should have know that in the end, they must fight back. And that the only way to do that is to avoid any interlan conflicts and to join forces.
I cant belive how nobody from Skyrim just go to skyrim and sayed "Well, if you are not going to fight the Thalmor we will do"
If Ulfric, instead of using his Stormcloacks chasing Imperial troopers, should have just leaved Torygg alone, selected an army of bloody and crazy Nords and just jumped into Dominion territory.... like Ysgramonr and his 500 !!!
That would have made me thing that Ulfric is a damn HERO , the best of all, the glorious warrior that go to his battle just to defend his beliefs !!!! But no. He is not that guy , sadly.

Ulfric is making use of a bunch farmers, maids and the rest of Skyrim's peasantry with only a few legion veterans. Ysgramor had the 500 finest warriors of Atmora accompany him along with Ahzidal giving them ultra powerful weapons from Draconic and Mer technology.

Who do you think has it harder?