Civil War, What Could Have Been? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:38 pm

The Empire wasn't going to let anyone fight the thalmor. If that were the case, then they'd have zero reason to arrest Ulfric for worshipping Talos. They'd just let them war against the Thalmor and drop them as a province like they did Hammerfell. But Skyrim is more important to the Empire.

If he amassed an army and just leave Skyrim for the war, nobody would chased him.
He was captured for the murder of Torygg and for treason. Not for Thalos.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:44 pm

Maybe on the stormcloak side, which he only gets a nickname and always ends up just a soldier. But on the empire, he becomes a LEGATE (A military rank equivalent to a COLONEL) a officer.

Yet all you do is kill, and you don't lead men. It doesn't mean anything. You're just a powerful agent.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:06 pm

Ulfric and Tullius should've worked together behind the scenes, so that they could fight off the Thalmor as one entity, instead of independent nations coming out of a civil war.

But, I don't know if there was a high likelihood of that ever succeeding.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:37 pm

Maybe on the stormcloak side, which he only gets a nickname and always ends up just a soldier. But on the empire, he becomes a LEGATE (A military rank equivalent to a COLONEL) a officer.

It's just a title. He doesn't lead anyone, or compose any strategy. Or show that he can be an effective political ambassador for skyrim. Like I said, the only thing that is for sure is that the Dragonborn is a killing machine.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:28 am

If he amassed an army and just leave Skyrim for the war, nobody would chased him.
He was captured for the murder of Torygg and for treason. Not for Thalos.

You can't seriously think he'd fight all the dominion with whatever men he could scrounge up from Skyrim?

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:53 pm

Ulfric is making use of a bunch farmers, maids and the rest of Skyrim's peasantry with only a few legion veterans. Ysgramor had the 500 finest warriors of Atmora accompany him along with Ahzidal giving them ultra powerful weapons from Draconic and Mer technology.

Who do you think has it harder?

If Ulfric had the charismatic traits, and had not killed Torygg, belive me, so many nords would have joined his Crusade.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:34 pm

Yet all you do is kill, and you don't lead men. It doesn't mean anything. You're just a powerful agent.

Your technically the highest ranking officer during the assault on the forts and you command the men on the wagon ambushes. (Though same for the stormcloaks.)

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:19 pm

Ulfric is making use of a bunch farmers, maids and the rest of Skyrim's peasantry with only a few legion veterans. Ysgramor had the 500 finest warriors of Atmora accompany him along with Ahzidal giving them ultra powerful weapons from Draconic and Mer technology.

Who do you think has it harder?

That's just not fair.

For one, Ysgramor had to enter an uncharted continent, and fight off an entire civilization.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:57 pm

You can't seriously think he'd fight all the dominion with whatever men he could scrounge up from Skyrim?

No of course not. But perhaps he would give the example. And he has the power of the voice to lead him in the battle and terrify his enemies. Presumably the Thalmor is not as strong as they may think, so, who knows really?
It all depends of what kind of warriors and how many would follow him.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:13 pm

How does killing dragons qualify you to rule? As for bad mouthing Ulfric, you have no idea what you are talking about. He's shown great aptitude as a leader.

Dude by killing dragons you saved skyrim. The nords acknowledge strength above all. And how has Ulfric proven himself to be a great leader? Some examples where the dragon born was not the catalyst please. Cuz I mean let's be honest dragonborn makes everyone look good. Outside of the markarth incident(which was clearly a plot by Ulfric to get sympathy for his cause) he has got nothing.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:12 am

If Ulfric had the charismatic traits, and had not killed Torygg, belive me, so many nords would have joined his Crusade.

What you saying is totally irrelevant.

Ulfric is charismatic enough that even some Imperials respect him, Skyrim alone simply doesn't have the ability to take down the Dominon though pulling a Hammerfall is possible.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:07 pm

What you saying is totally irrelevant.

Ulfric is charismatic enough that even some Imperials respect him, Skyrim alone simply doesn't have the ability to take down the Dominon though pulling a Hammerfall is possible.

The he just choosed the wrong path.
Making his own people enemies one each other. A hell of a leader.
His intentions are good? Perhaps
His way is good? No way. He is blinded.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:13 pm

Your technically the highest ranking officer during the assault on the forts and you command the men on the wagon ambushes. (Though same for the stormcloaks.)

Yeah, but the game is made so all of your decisions work anyways. A small little wagon ambush and an actual battle are far different. I still stand by my opinion that the Dragonborn has shown next to nothing in regards in his ability to lead or be a political ambassador. He is a Dragonslaying, Men/Mer killing machine, but beyond that we have no idea of his ability to lead.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:11 pm

Outside of the markarth incident(which was clearly a plot by Ulfric to get sympathy for his cause) he has got nothing.

It was clever plot by the Dominion...
But Ulfric is a good war leader there is no denying that.

Yeah, but the game is made so all of your decisions work anyways. A small little wagon ambush and an actual battle are far different. I still stand by my opinion that the Dragonborn has shown next to nothing in regards in his ability to lead or be a political ambassador. He is a Dragonslaying, Men/Mer killing machine, but beyond that we have no idea of his ability to lead.

You do negoitiate a peace between these "Warriors of Skyrim"

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:31 pm

Dude by killing dragons you saved skyrim. The nords acknowledge strength above all. And how has Ulfric proven himself to be a great leader? Some examples where the dragon born was not the catalyst please. Cuz I mean let's be honest dragonborn makes everyone look good. Outside of the markarth incident(which was clearly a plot by Ulfric to get sympathy for his cause) he has got nothing.

Are you saying the whole Markarth incident was Ulfric's plan? If so, that's far from it.

Also, combat exploits can get you a good position in the Military (see BigBossBalrog's post on your ascent in the Legion), but that hardly gives you any right to a political position like High King.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:02 pm

Your technically the highest ranking officer during the assault on the forts and you command the men on the wagon ambushes. (Though same for the stormcloaks.)

Actually Ralof was.

Dude by killing dragons you saved skyrim. The nords acknowledge strength above all. And how has Ulfric proven himself to be a great leader? Some examples where the dragon born was not the catalyst please. Cuz I mean let's be honest dragonborn makes everyone look good. Outside of the markarth incident(which was clearly a plot by Ulfric to get sympathy for his cause) he has got nothing.

Nords value strength, but they're not stupid. They're not gonna make some random guy who doesn't even know their customs King. How are you this stubborn? Dragonborn is a killing machine, not a politician or one who can lead a nation and its armies.

Dragonborn isn't even guaranteed to be a nord. They're not gonna let a khajiit be High King...

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:12 pm

Actually Ralof was.

Nords value strength, but they're not stupid. They're not gonna make some random guy who doesn't even know their customs King. How are you this stubborn? Dragonborn is a killing machine, not a politician or one who can lead a nation and its armies.

Maybe your dragonborn wasn't capable of leading nations, but that doesn't mean that the canon dragonborn isn't.

Of course, I highly doubt that the DB will be king.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:41 pm

The he just choosed the wrong path.
Making his own people enemies one each other. A hell of a leader.
His intentions are good? Perhaps
His way is good? No way. He is blinded.

He is not blinded, do you think he is just going to sit on Ysgramors throne all day like Balgruuf does in Whiterun and let the Thalmor slaughter the people of Skyrim? If no one else chooses to lift a finger to stop the murdering, they are no different than those who perpetrated it. So what if a few people have to die. That is how war is! Better an honorable death for a Nord than to be dragged off to be tortured to death by the Thalmor.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:08 am

You do negoitiate a peace between these "Warriors of Skyrim"

The answers are hand picked for you, and who says you did good in that? They don't listen to you because you are a great leader, they listen because Alduin is about to eat the world. They'd rather the Dragonborn finish that fight before trying to finish the war. This doesn't in my eyes classify as an example of leadership.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:22 pm

The answers are hand picked for you, and who says you did good in that? They don't listen to you because you are a great leader, they listen because Alduin is about to eat the world. They'd rather the Dragonborn finish that fight before trying to finish the war. This doesn't in my eyes classify as an example of leadership.

Maybe not leadership a bit of a diplomatic bone.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:17 pm

Maybe not leadership a bit of a diplomatic bone.

It was just you listening to their demands, and giving them random things so they would comply. I don't think it shows you to be very diplomatic, just that you can navigate your way through an argument. If I remember right, I even think the meeting almost fails until Esbern (not the Dragonborn, with his diplomacy) keeps everyone there. I could be wrong on that one though. If I am right on that though, then the DB has proven to be not good at diplomacy, rather than proving they can handle themselves.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:35 pm

Gameplay-wise, the Civil War could have been 1 of 2 things.

1. A more integral part of the main quest line.

2. A secondary main story with a lot more detail and thought put into it than what we got.

It seems as though the intention was for the latter, but it was scrapped in favor of a cool release date.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:30 pm

Are you saying the whole Markarth incident was Ulfric's plan? If so, that's far from it.

Also, combat exploits can get you a good position in the Military (see BigBossBalrog's post on your ascent in the Legion), but that hardly gives you any right to a political position like High King.

Yet denying a challenge as high king will lead to a new moot an vote for high king, that's very political right? During that treaty to postpone the fighting he eagerly accepted my proposals even though I screwed him over any chance he got. Smart guy huh? Oh of course he knew the elves would find out they we're allowed to worship talos, he was counting on it. He wanted people to see that the imperials we're puppets of the thalmor.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:51 pm

Maybe your dragonborn wasn't capable of leading nations, but that doesn't mean that the canon dragonborn isn't.

Of course, I highly doubt that the DB will be king.

NO ONE'S dragonborn does anything to suggest they are.

» Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:31 pm

Yet denying a challenge as high king will lead to a new moot an vote for high king, that's very political right? During that treaty to postpone the fighting he eagerly accepted my proposals even though I screwed him over any chance he got. Smart guy huh? Oh of course he knew the elves would find out they we're allowed to worship talos, he was counting on it. He wanted people to see that the imperials we're puppets of the thalmor.

That's the point. If this wasn't a quest, I don't think either of them (Tullius, Ulfric) would have been so compliant with you. Also, Ulfric knowing of the old challenge law shows that he at least has knowledge of the laws. Which is more than you could say of the Dragonborn.