That would be Esbern.

All hail Emperor Esbern and his loyal general the Dragonborn then?
oh also kill Delphine.
I don't want the Dragonborn to end up a king or emperor or even a Jarl cause that would throw up lore problems for the future,But the thing is you are sitting at the head of the table and you made some of the most hard headed guys in Skyrim agree to a truce,If you werent there there wouldn't even have been a meeting,As a PC you don't have complete free will inside the game where you can suggest alternate methods you can only pick and choose with what option they give you.

Thank you, I'll edit that in.

If Esbern wasn't there, we would have failed.

Yeah, but Alduin forced their hand. I extremely doubt that if you just said "HEY GUYS! I want to hold a peace council!", that you would be successful. Alduin helps you in your efforts to get through to the stubborn men.

Also, no to the Emperor Esbern thing. I said it takes many things to be a viable candidate for a position like High King. I believe all he says is something like come on guys, there are more important matters (Alduin). Again, could be wrong. But yeah, sure decapitate Delphine. I don't like her much either.

No Dragonborn=No meeting =Infinite amount of souls for Alduin.
Esbern got the point across to the Leaders of the war..


I was just kidding about the Emperor Esbern thing.

Dragonborn without Esbern

Meeting-> Fails because they can't keep the people there --> Souls for the Firstborn.

My point is both are needed. Actually all three (Alduin, the Dragonborn, and Esbern) are needed.

So we showed our political prowess by sitting in a chair? Esbern is the one who did the convincing, not us.

We agree at last....the spokes of a wheel,which ends a stupid conflict for a time.

That's what most of the high and mighty lordy lords do isn't it,let others do their jobs.

No Dragonborn-> Static World-> Nothing happening-> No more souls for Alduin.

Problem solved.

We didn't agree? I was saying yeah, the Dragonborn was needed. Only because he can defeat Alduin. Nothing else. Not because he is good at negotiations or anything like that. Without Alduin, not even the Dragonborn could start a peace council. Also, the Dragonborn would have had the council fall through if it hadn't been for Esbern.

My point is that the Dragonborn only seems to be good at being Dragonborn. In that he is good at killing stuff.

Ok timeout bro. I am talking about the dragonborn as the player controlled character. The dragonborn(us controlling him/her) would be knowledgeable about all the nord laws and customs, just because we are never asked does not mean the dragon born doesn't know. If that's the case I do agree that the dragonborn id a mindless killing machine because that's all the quest allows for. If you look at the dragonborn as mindless stone, then I apologize as this arguments is clearly not for me. I am curious as to what makes Ulfric a great military leader in your eyes?

You need Alduin as the Catalyst,The Dragonborn as the mover of things and Esbern finishes it.
The Dragonborn makes the council happen Alduin didn't come an convince Ulfric and Tullius by burning down solitude and Windhelm though that would have got the point across pretty well too,But Alduin was the reason a catalyst you still need the Dragonborn to make the council happen.

Yea, if you want to be an Elisif.

He was almost master stroked by Tullius, and with a little luck (Alduin), lives to fight another day, and holds off one of the Legion's best generals. Until the Dragonborn turns the tide for one side. Also, this can't be counted against Tullius or Ulfric, because lets face it. They couldn't stop the Dragonborn, he is the player and the player usually is unstoppable. Oh, and he's Dragonborn...

Also, I can't say that the Dragonborn knows all the laws and customs. I don't, and not everybody does. So I can't just say he does because he is Dragonborn. Going by a players Dragonborn is different, because I don't know you. Maybe you have the potential to be a great political and military leader, but I wouldn't know that. So yeah, maybe this argument isn't for you.I agreed on that. But being a catalyst doesn't make you High King material.

We can only speculate that the DB knows somethings about nord law and customs but the problem is its unlikely since the LDB is foreigner, s/he was captured after sneaking into skyrim. Also I'm going to agree with you, there is absolutely no proof that Ulfric is considered a great general, what battles did he even lead? All of the battles were lead by his lieutenants and his soldiers yet the only battle he was known to be in was the one that got him captured and possibly the siege of Solitude.

He fought the best general in Cyrodiil to a stand still.

I just love how in Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all the worst comes to the world when the PC decides to acutally embark on the MQ. Maybe Balgruuf is right, not GAF is the safest course of action.

Lieutenants that he probably picked, which were all good decisions apparently.

Never said it did,I don't want the Dragonborn to end up a High King,I doubt the people of Skyrim would appreciate a Wood Elf ruling over them.
But I just wanted to make a point that you need the dragonborn to make the meeting happen.

I thought you were the one saying the Dragonborn should be High King. My mistake, and I apologize .

Also, yeah I agree with you there.

The problem is that Tulius doesn't really have a full regiment of soldiers, just because he is a great general doesn't mean he can easily beat numbers if the stormcloaks have more or the same amount of troops and another factor is that the supply lines from Cyrodiil and high rock and key locations in skyrim were either harassed by bandits or forsworn or got lost somehow.


There is a difference between being a smart leader and being a good general

If he has the same amount of troops? How shouldn't he be able to win if they have the same? Besides, aren't most of his troops legion trained? I know that there quite a few legion vets in the Stormcloak ranks, but I doubt they have as many legion trained soldiers as the freaking legion. Also, I doubt Ulfric lacks problems with supplies. It is Skyrim after all.

Histories greatest leaders have often if not always been good generals.