You realize all we did was kill people right? How does that qualify you to lead a country? We have zero experience leading men. Its not all "look at me I'm dragonborn, so your armies automatically lose to mine" you know.

OH. I forgot that the shout didn't kill him. He had to run him through right? Another question. What the hell were the guards who inhabit The Blue Palace doing? I know the guy at the gate let him out, but what of the others?

They probably didn't know what to do since Nordic law says it was legal. I wouldn't be surprised if they all just blamed it on poor Rogvir when the legion got there.

It's never really stated, so occams razor probably can be applied here. They got caught with their pants down like everyone else in Solitude.

If I was Elisif, I'd be asking these types of questions.

Don't be naive. Nothing like having the Dragonborn implicitly endorse your reign by standing by your side.

And blasting Torygg and running him through wasn't an act of treason in the Empire's eyes? He's going to Solitude to piss off the Empire no matter what, why completely alienate the nords who were still Empire-inclined by killing the king?

Also... Arrest Ulfric? Do you realize how difficult that'd be? He knows the Disarm shout. And the order to arrest still would not protect the affront to Torygg's honor that Ulfric's challenge would inflict. That's why Torygg accepted the challenge in the first place.

So much needless bloodshed all because Ulfric wanted a go at the Empire more than he wanted a freed Skyrim. Sorry, I meant because the Thalmor have been goading Ulfric on in order to sow more strife amongst those against them and increase their odds of winnng Great War Two.



Achieve nothing? A woman who helped raise him from a babe said he had so much respect for Ulfric during the last moot for speaking his mind. Just like Ulfric had to speak in terms "just shy of treason", Torygg couldn't have just come out and said it either.

Please, she's too busy trying to tie her shoes, lol.

We killed people by default, there is no other option. Ulfric's strategy of take over the next fort is not to complex. Like I said just because we we're not put in position to lead the whole army does not mean we can't.

I think you overestimate the power of his thu'um. If he could avoid a palace full of guards, he'd never have gotten caught by Tullius. And anyway the whole point of killing Torygg was to gain support from other Jarls and to start a moot to replace him. Talking was already done, and Torygg said squat. He had his chance. The time for talk was over. Any time talking after that would just be a waste, clearly. Even his mage says he wouldn't betray the Empire anyway. So your suggestion to me seems a bit naive.

We're just adventurers who happen to be dragonborn. We're not even guaranteed to be Nords, remember? It wouldn't make sense for us to be High King. What if you're an Imperial or an orc?

Plus his mage is a vampire, centuries old for all we know, who probably had pretty good insight into Torygg's thinking.

I'm not being naive. That's exactly what I mean.


As long as the effect of freeing Skyrim is met, Ulfric doesn't care who gets credit. Else he would remove us from sight so it would stay his rebellion

Just because it is in our Dov nature to dominate, that does not explicitly imply that we must lead. It does imply that we will dominate, but not lead. Besides, Ulfric knows the people better than I do.

And at the Colonel: Probably hahahah.

Another thing: People who think Tullius or Ulfric are cool guys, consider this. I went to each of them and punched them in the face. And they got angry! Can you believe that? Ridiculous, the temper of those two.

The only person who says that Torygg secretly admired Ulfric is Sybille Stentor. In the same conversation she says Torygg had no intention of seceding and lists off the reasons why. She also says that Ulfric had spoken out about independence "in terms just shy of treason" at the Moot (presumably the one where Torygg was confirmed as king). She confirms that they all heard Ulfric's challenge, and that Torygg accepted the duel.

So, what does this tell us: If Torygg ever intended to join Ulfric's cause, he told no one, and was known for making speeches about the glorious empire. Ulfric had risked prison (again) to speak out in a public forum about independence, and still Torygg did nothing. Is he supposed to risk prison (again) while the boy king twiddles his thumbs? Finally, if Torygg really did believe in his cause, then he could have declined the duel, stepped down as king, remained as jarl of Solitude while supporting Ulfric's bid in the Moot. Skyrim would likely have seceded with no bloodshed and Torygg gets to keep being the useless figurehead he is.

1 - Well the answer is simple, the guy, Ulfric, like an animal, want (with good intention of course) to feed his ego, but some high king was in his way, and to make his goal he just had to kill him. I can understand, he acted with instinct and not with reason, is a lower beign.

2 - The Empire was able to capture him. Sadly, Alduin intervened and saved his head. A shame.

3 - Indeed. He is spilling the blood of HIS OWN people just for accomplish his desires and lusts. As I stated in point 1, we cant really blame him. You can blame a wolf to kill for feed himself? (Sarcasm of course)

You just love ignoring my posts, eh? See above.

I ask again... He was there with intent to kill Torygg anyway, what is the harm in asking? "Because he might get arrested again" is not a valid argument, since he was there with intent to dispense lethal force anyway.

A good leader exercises escalation of extreme measures. Ulfric did not. He did not do what was necessary, he did what was convenient.

All that conversation flowed before I posted hehe. Let me read what happened and I will gladly reply!

As the Colonel said, if Torygg had anything to say, he had multiple chances to say it, the time for talking was past.

I still consider his way to do the Ape′s way. He acted just like an animal. Making a point killing a High King? Come on. Even doing that he dont win the support of all the Jarls, hardly the support of the half of them that were supporting a seccesion.
His mage is a Vampire. I dont trust nor belive in abominations of the Daedra.

At the point of killing the High King, hadn't the civil war already started? Not in earnest like taking cities, but in small fights across Skyrim for forts and the like? The timeline for Ulfric's life is kinda muddy if we're all being honest.

Wrong. He wouldn't have been arrested because his challenge was legal. It wasn't an issue til the Empire arrived. Speaking treason would have gotten him arrested. The duel would not have. AND HE ALREADY SPOKE OUT AT THE MOOT.

I already explained why his way was the only way at that point. Nothing else would bear any fruit. And people believe her when she says Torygg was on Ulfric's side, but when I use her to prove my point she's a liar?

Its not so easy. Perhaps Torygg was not as short-minded as many paint him. Perhaps he knowed that, by declaring a seccesions, some jarls and people will just plainly refuse and start a civil war in the worst moment possible.
A thing that some animals, sadly, dont understand. You know... animals.