Every day there are new posts asking for advice on the power of builds. Obviously there are guides all over the place, as well as the all-powerful http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Character_Creation, but this should be reference thread to link to for general tips (rather than explaining these factors again and again when builds are presented). I hope some of these general ideas will help people who are trying to decide on a new character class.


Note:"High difficulty, modded game" does not mean the class system is changed at all, though the speed of leveling all skills may be decreased simply to make the game last longer for a single character. Vanilla Oblivion's frequently-too-fast leveling system was designed to let you create several characters to experience different factions/quests of the game, and still become high level. Ways of coping with leveling too fast in order to keep one character a "core" powerhouse (like http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Under_Leveling or minors as majors) are not addressed here.

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Links:
http://ocp.uesp.net/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/939912-oblivion-character-database/
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Character_Creation
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Efficient_Leveling

Please use this thread to share and discuss any tips/tricks/examples about strengths and weaknesses to help those anolyzing a new build. Here is a form to copy and paste, should anyone need it:


Roleplaying Vs. Efficiency:

There are as many play-styles as there are gamers.

Eventually whenever discussing how good a certain class is, you have to take into consideration that the only thing that matters is how immersed in the game you are. As applies to any situation in life: If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. Do your thing and play what you like.

Both roleplaying and efficiency are fun, but there tends to be a polarization between what seems cool, and what is powerful. Efficient leveling, class design, and anolyzing statistics can be lots of fun in itself. I take a moderate stance between the two. I think you can roleplay with an efficient class, do a minimal amount of efficient leveling, and still have a blast both ways.

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Efficient Leveling: Stick to Endurance and Intelligence

There have been many discussions about whether to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Efficient_Leveling or not.

Should you choose to Efficiently Level, Under Level, or use Minors as Majors in order to reduce the "level cap", it completely changes the approach to character design. While these approaches may be effective later in the game, they come along with periods of "training" (i.e., practicing spells over and over), a disorganized character sheet, and difficulty imbalance throughout the game's content. It is not recommended to try and trick the class system to create a core "powerhouse" character in vanilla Oblivion, unless as a hobby. A simple mod like http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14304 can reduce or eliminate the need to muddle class design to slow leveling down.

Only worry about Endurance and Intelligence and let the rest go. The difficulty in achieving three +5's every level is great enough that its benefits are outweighed. Attributes are simply not powerful enough, compared to skills, to worry about efficient leveling.

Attributes are less effective than skill points. A point in Strength is less powerful than a point in Blunt, as far as damage. Worry more about leveling your skills up to reach perks than leveling up unused skills in order to achieve +5's in attributes you don't need. The time you spend "training" these skills can be incredibly boring. Don't sweat it.

The only statistics you should worry about getting +5 in each level are Intelligence and Endurance, which are easy thanks to (Alchemy, Mysticism, Conjuration) and (Block, Heavy Armor, Armorer). These give you a bigger health pool and a bigger mana pool, both of which are crucial to any character who wants to survive. I recommend trying your best to reach +4 or +5 up until about level 10, and then forgetting all about efficient leveling: you'll be fine with +2/+3's.

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Complex Classes: More Fun, More Strategy

Nightblade. Battlemage. Creating a class with many ways to kill things is a good way to keep the game fresh for hours and hours. Give yourself offensive and defensive options, and then add some complementary usability skills. Great strategic skills make for fun gameplay: If you are a warrior, use Restoration to absorb strength from enemies. If you're a mage, use Blade to finish your enemies off. If you're a thief, use Conjuration to lure enemies away while you sneak past them. Consider all the possibilities for strategy against various enemies. Making a custom class that combines specializations is a great way to ensure you're thinking your way through the game. :chaos:

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Race/Gender: A Choice of Staring

What you enjoy looking at or roleplaying as matters much more than any class bonuses. While http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races strongly influence early-game abilities and stats, I mostly recommend you choose what you aesthetically enjoy.

That being said, the following tips are only from the Efficiency point of view, for survival and effectiveness in combat.

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Powerful Race Bonuses

Bretons: Almost laughably powerful. Bonuses to Magicka, Conjuration and Restoration help a caster, and anyone can benefit from the defensive bonus of shaving 50% damage from any magical attack (includes enchanted weapons). A 50% shield spell is basically like an instant full suit of enchanted Daedric armor at your disposal.

Recommended Specialization: Any, but offensive casters especially! The defensive magical resistance and insta-armor are assets to any class, great for warriors.

Bosmer: +10 to Sneak, Marksman and Alchemy provides a decent starting bonus to any stealth-type character. Both abilities are somewhat useless, however. Recommended Specialization: Any Stealth, especially pure thieves.

Khajiit: Consider the ability to fear almost any creature in the game for 30 seconds once per day, as well as free constant Night-Eye (which can be replaced with Illusion skill 25, potions or enchantments) and light bonuses to thieves. As a side note, a +10 bonus in Acrobatics will help to reach the Journeyman Dodge perk earlier. Endurance penalty. Recommended Specialization: Any Stealth combo.

Nord: Strong bonuses for heavy armor warriors, a little Restoration bonus, as well as Endurance for males. Resisting frost will come in handy against Frost Atronachs, Dremoras and other spellcasters. Woad is a useful armor for tight situations. Recommended Specialization: Any Warrior complimented with Restoration and extra offensive skills.

Orc: Strong bonuses for heavy armor warriors and Endurance. Berserk is handy when the need for melee damage arises, but mostly a 25% resist magic helps against many opponents. Recommended Specialization: Any Warrior with defensive skills.

Redguard: Good bonuses to melee warriors, with Endurance, but mainly Adrenaline Rush. 60 seconds of improved damage, less staggering, tons more health, and quicker movement make a particularly hard battle much easier. The resistance to Disease and Poison are side-notes. Recommended Specialization: Any Warrior combo with defensive skills.

Dunmer: Resist Fire 75% will be noticed when fighting Daedra. A good race for complex classes, though skill bonuses are average. Male has no Endurance penalty. Ancestor Guardian spell is useless later in the game except as a short distraction. Recommended Specialization: Any! But especially fighter/casters.

Altmer: Consider them a worse choice than Bretons for casters. While having a deeper magicka pool, and good bonuses for offensive casters, taking extra damage from elemental spells can be a problem. Males do not suffer an Endurance penalty. Less Willpower than Bretons. Recommended Specialization: Any pure caster complimented with strong defensive combat abilities.

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Weak Race Bonuses:

Argonian: Bonuses to Athletics and Security are moot. Resist Disease/Poison are rarely useful. Breathing underwater is replaced with Apprentice Alteration, potions or enchantments.

Imperial: While strong in the reputation game, bonuses to Personality, Speechcraft and a once-a-day Charm spell are not useful in combat. Personality influence is easily replaced with apprentice Illusion spells, scrolls, potions, staffs, and enchantments. There are better choices for mages, warriors and thieves.

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Effective Attributes:

• Luck: Provides a hidden bonus to all skills, thus affecting spell costs and everything else. Choosing to level up Luck is generally a good idea, because it's one of the most effective skills.
  
  
• Endurance: The most crucial stat. How much health you have is very influential to the outcome of every battle.
  
  
• Intelligence: A character without magic is impotent. Having a steady supply is very important. Wisdom helps, but focus on Intelligence first due to the many ways to restore magicka.
  
  
• Agility: Consider that this effects how often you are knocked back. If you are interested in melee combat and blocking, Agility is important.

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Less Effective Attributes:

• Wisdom: Any class with a medium mana pool can still be quite a caster, given you have other opportunities to cause damage in combat aside from Destruction. Willpower helps to recharge mana while you use other methods in combat. Great for complex casters like Nightblades or Battlemages.
  
  
• Strength: Doesn't influence damage as much as skill scores, like Blade. Encumbrance can be helped with Alteration spells, Alchemy potions or just with careful planning. Affects movement speed.
  
  
• Personality: Only influences the persuasion mini-game - the least useful attribute. Worth avoiding altogether, if you have one of the many other methods to increase NPC reaction.

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Particularly Strong Birthsigns:

Note: Below, I will examine the idea that you don't need a Magicka-increasing birthsign to effectively use magic, as long as Conjuration and Destruction aren't your only forms of offense.

The Lady or the Warrior (spellcaster or melee respectively): Endurance is a crucial statistic. Not only will these 10 points benefit you at the beginning of the game, they will complement your core strength level by level. Willpower is also very important if you're a complex class spellcaster (like a nightblade or battlemage), because you can cast spells, then use other offensive abilities until Willpower helps magicka recharge. Lose the need for Welkynd stones and potions. Those points in Strength help any melee character. Both good choices.

The Mage: Excellent choice for a pure spellcaster. Bonuses to Magicka and Willpower will be of great help throughout the game, with no side effects. Better than the Apprentice!

The Ritual: Do not underestimate the ability to turn ANY undead for the low price of 40 magicka, as many times as you like: this pretty much provides an instant kill (considering that you're hacking on them while they flee) to any Undead for paltry magicka (even if you're a warrior you'll be able to cast this once, use a welkynd stone or potion, and cast again). Also, until you are around level 10, possess an instant full-heal power. Many times looked over, the abilities of the Ritual would be the core of a paladin-type of character.

The Thief: Luck provides hidden bonuses. Should you choose the Thief and Luck as a class attribute, the score of 65 luck will already give +6 to all of your skills. This lowers the cost of spells and increases the effect of...well, everything you do. Combined with Speed and Agility, this is one of my personal favorites.

The Atronach: In my opinion, not for mages! The trouble to recharge magicka throughout the game, even with Alchemy leveled, is a pesky nuisance which may soon get old and annoying (but it's up to you - this Sign can provide a challenging and different gameplay element if you so desire). The extra points in Magicka are nullified by the lack of recharging. However, it is effective defensively, considering that it will prevent 50% of spells from having any effect. This is a more powerful ability than the Warrior birthsign itself. Rush into melee combat with a Lich, and he will be 50% weaker! Also works against enchanted weapons!

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Particularly Weak Birthsigns

Note: Modified versions of many of these powers are available free from http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Doomstones#Doom_Stones anyway.

The Lord: 25% weakness to fire can make fighting Daedra or casters a little harder. A pocket heal spell is available for multiple casts. However, due to the effectiveness of other spells and potions to restore health instantly (no-cast), the penalties to fire damage outweigh the benefits of the Blood of the North, compared to better birthsigns.

The Apprentice: While it seems like "middle-ground" between the Mage and the Atronach, it is not. It is both weaker than the Mage and as annoying as the Atronach. Prepare to die against simple spells from any magical opponent, or make great horrible preparations to absorb/reflect/resist all forms of magical attacks. This includes enchanted weapons!


The Shadow: One invisibility spell per day. Hardly anything to write to Grandma about! You'll find many potions long before reaching level 10 which can substitute for this ability, or you'll have already reached Journeyman level in Illusion. You may find yourself forgetting that you have Moonshadow, while your combat skills could really use the help of a different sign.

The Steed: Once again, a forgettable choice. Unless you are currently addicted to crack, and need 20 points of speed just to get from place to place, forget about this one. Journeyman Restoration spells can enhance Athletics, Speed and Strength, Novice Alteration spells can reduce encumbrance (increasing speed), and enjoying the painstakingly detailed environment can generally take your attention away from how fast you're moving.

The Lover: Paralyze is available in poisons, spells and with staves. The fatigue damage is moderate for a small 10 second period of paralyzation. There are better choices for power.

The Serpent: The damage is simply not enough to last for a once-a-day spell, though the dispel effect may come in handy occasionally. Cure Poison is rarely useful.

The Tower: Even with a Security skill of 15-25 you should be able to pick Average locks if you put your ears to it. 5% Reflect damage is a hardly noticeable effect, even in large battles - while essentially granting you 5 Armor and damaging your opponents, it is simply not as useful as some other Birthsigns. Also, if you need a once-a-day lock opening spell, the corresponding Doomstone will grant you the ability to open a Hard lock instead of Average.

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Armor Types:

For armor, consider this:

You do not want to be running away from every enemy, trying to shoot them with a bow or cast spells. You want to be able to stand up in more battles with melee combat as you face more numerous and tougher opponents.

Armor effects weight and spell efficiency. Even with high skill, when wearing an entire suit, you will lose 10-15% of all spells' cost and power. If you don't have high Armor skill, when you wear armor, spells will be seriously gimped.

A choice between Light and Heavy is mostly aesthetic. However, consider your Strength score more important for encumbrance with Heavy.

You CAN survive without armor - it gets easier when higher level, but makes the early game a real pain. At higher levels, you can enchant clothing with shield spells to cover armor, so keep that option in mind (however inefficient and costly). Enchanting clothing with elemental shield spells and resistance makes for a powerful suit - but may be very expensive. For the first 10 levels, assume this ability to be unavailable. That may be a tough third of the game.

Also, keep in mind Alchemy can make handy Shield potions (combined with restore health, restore fatigue, resist element, or elemental shield).

If you choose Alteration, you have access to Elemental Shield spells (particularly effective against Daedra), as well as Feather (lighten Encumbrance). A combination of Alteration and an armor skill provides excellent defense, so you can do melee combat as well as walk on water/open locks/breathe water etc.

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Focus Major Skills Around Combat:

While creating your class, consider its core aspect: You're going to be fighting lots of things. :flamethrower: It's imperative to choose at least two offensive, and two defensive skills as Majors:

Offensive Major Skills (choose 2)

• Blade
  
• Blunt
  
• Hand To Hand
  
• Marksman
  
• Destruction

Defensive Major Skills (choose 2)

• Heavy Armor
  
• Light Armor
  
• Block
  
• Alteration
  
• Restoration

Note that Hand to Hand is an oddball because of the inability to enchant, and somewhat weaker blocking power (though Fatigue damage is quite effective). Also, Restoration only applies as Defensive because of its Journeyman spells which can absorb or enhance attributes/skills briefly.

This leaves you with a choice of three other complementary skills.

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Particularly Powerful Skills:

• Illusion - :thumbsup: nighteye, invisibility, charm, paralyze, frenzy...and the list goes on. These spells are all crucially powerful in their respective situations. If you're planning any kind of a stealth character, you will be impotent in comparison without it.
  
  
• Restoration :thumbsup: - restore, fortify, or absorb skills/attributes, and resist magical attacks. This is quite possibly the most invaluable spell school. Restoring health is only one aspect of Restoration. Consider for a moment that, after reaching skill level 50, you will be able to Fortify any attribute or skill past 100 for a brief period of time. This is particularly effective with security, acrobatics, athletics, mercantile, and speechcraft. Not only that, but you will have access to enchanting items with Resist Magic, which shaves off a good deal of damage from any spell.

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Bread and Butter Skills

Consider these skills a good choice as secondary ones, after establishing a strong offense and defense. These are only comparably stronger Major choices to the weak skills listed below; by all means, as long as you have a strong base, choose what you like.

Acrobatics: Consider the ability to jump onto rocks outside or onto high spots in dungeons. Very valuable, because essentially you can kill anything simply with Destruction or Marksman from a distance. Any wilderness fight can be soothed easily by finding a high enough rock and raining death down upon your foes. Also, the Journeyman perk "Dodge" is an exciting ability to try and master - another fun part of combat to have. Great for a Major spot.

Block: Works well as a minor skill to level Endurance, but also an incredibly powerful defensive asset. Consider the timing in which melee battles take place: There is a rhythmic flow between being hit and retaliating (either with weapons or spells). Block changes that rhythm in your favor, allowing you to stagger enemies, and get in twice as many attacks at least, without taking extra damage. Also, consider the chance to stagger enemies backward at Expert level. Great for a Major spot.

Conjuration: Bound weapons are convenient, and summoned creatures provide great protection and distraction.

Sneak: Nice for obvious reasons. After Journeyman level and upward, sneak past nearly any enemy. Loot dungeons without fighting anyone. Staying hidden, sneak attacks and pickpocketing are commonly useful. A very powerful skill.

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Particularly Weak Skills:

• Mysticism :thumbsdown: - Almost all of the abilities of this magic school are easily available at skill level 25, which is ridiculously easy to reach if you practice for a while. Detect Life in 60 feet at Apprentice level - plenty to see what's around corners in dungeons. While the abilities to Absorb and Reflect magicka are tempting, they are only accessible at Expert (75) level, and still remain expensive for how weak they are. By that time, you should have collected potions, enchanted items, or Sigil Stones which provide reflect/absorb abilities.
  
  
• Speechcraft :thumbsdown: - We all can agree that Personality is somewhat worthless. Any NPC can easily be bribed/charmed up to 70 to reach conversation or quest perks. Illusion renders Speechcraft totally useless. Unless you enjoy the minigame, this skill is better left in the dust drawer.
  
  
• Mercantile :thumbsdown: - Due to the cap on Merchant money, finding magical items which are incredibly valuable will render this skill useless. Also, you can make decent profit on common items even with a low skill level. In my opinion, because money is so plentiful later in the game, the only reason to take this skill is for the perks you reach at Expert and Master level. I say this while using the Cutthroat Merchants mod, which greatly increases the costs of most items - I still can't help being filthy rich.
  
  
• Hand to Hand :thumbsdown: - The inability to enchant this weapon, as well as taking full damage when blocking, even while damaging fatigue, makes it a worse choice than Blade or Blunt. Not to say it isn't incredibly fun to pound things into mush!
  
  
• Security :thumbsdown: - Even with a low skill, you will be able to pick many locks if you're careful. Both high-level Restoration and Alteration have ways of replacing this skill, as well as a particular quest:
  Spoiler

  Level 10: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Skeleton_Key

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Skills That Work Better as Minors

• Alchemy - While this skill is incredibly powerful and useful all throughout the game, keeping it as a Minor skill will help to level Intelligence (mana pool) and keep you from leveling too quickly: it levels so quickly from making Restore Fatigue potions out of food... that you'll hardly notice.
  
  
• Armorer - If you do not desire the ability to repair magical equipment, this skill is helpful in leveling Endurance.

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Know Your Magicka Needs

Know http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Spells, and plan ahead for a high level magicka pool. This does not necessarily mean you need a magicka-increasing birthsign. There are plentiful ways to restore magic in the game:

• Potions
  
• Welkynd Stones
  
• Fortify Magicka Enchantments
  
• Willpower

Unless you need a massive mana pool in order to be able to cast high level Mysticism or Conjuration spells, you will still have enough mana to be able to throw out a decent number of spells during a battle - IF you are leveling Intelligence by using (Mysticism, Conjuration, Alchemy) as Minor skills. Destruction should NOT be the only way you have to kill things. Be sure to consider the strengths of all the birthsigns, rather than assuming because you're a spellcaster you need all that magicka.

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The Rhythm of Melee Combat

No, it isn't Riverdance. Thank God. There is a bit of a dance to melee combat, and the trick is timing.

Combat itself is set to a rhythm, because every creature you face has set values for attack speeds. Easily, you can predict enemies' incoming blows and set your defense and offense to compliment this. Monsters are much more predictable than humanoids.

Obviously, you should be trying to take as little damage as possible while causing tons. The way to do this is to understand each enemy's "flow", that is, expect their attacks. Easy as cake, really, if you're patient.

Slow Enemies: I consider zombies and ogres as harmless. Bunny rabbits, really. Why? Because you can run up to a slow enemy, and as soon as he moves to attack, you have loads of time to back out of range. Dodging their attacks is like clockwork if you have fast fingers, and you'll never take a hit.

Fast Enemies: Goblins, beasts and humanoids are fast attackers. Good luck trying to attack a cougar without some form of retaliation staggering. The trick here is to reduce their attack speed, and stagger enemies, so you have a chance to get in attacks and power attacks.

Staggering: The meat and potatoes of combat. You may not have noticed that this effect is what causes victory in melee combat. Remember that Agility affects how much damage you can take before you are staggered back, opening up a window for your enemy to release some pain.

• Block: Essential for melee combat in order to offset enemy rhythm and provide a window to retaliate.
  
  "One thing I have noticed in melee combat, if your opponent manages to block an attack which causes you to recoil, you can tap backwards movement in rapid little taps to avoid getting hit while you are recoiled. Your avatar will kind of slide backwards so long as you don't try to block or anything else. I have avoided many counter attacks with that move." --Avarae
  
  
• Acrobatics Journeyman Dodge: Leap out of the way of an attack. Mostly effective against slow enemies, simply avoids one attack rather than staggering and opening a window to retaliate.
  
  
• Illusion Journeyman Paralyze: Wonderful spell to interrupt an enemy's offense and provide a window.
  
  
• Restoration Journeyman Absorb/Drain Agility: Highly underrated and very powerful spell - staggering your enemy constantly kills their offense. Alternatively, absorb/drain Strength for a nice effect.

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Useful Enchantments and Spells


Please post suggestions in the thread, and if they're good, I'll post 'em right here. Much more info can be found at the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Useful_Spells.

A note on elements: Know your enemies' natural weaknesses. Undead are weak to fire but immune to paralyze and frost. All Dremora are weak to shock. Notice how long-distance Target spells from Destruction are different. Fire-spells, shock spells and damage health spells shoot a ball that explodes on impact. Frost spells, however, create the Area of Effect and shoot it out in a big blast toward the target. Hit many more targets much easier with Frost spells!


"Dirty Whisper" (Journeyman Illusion)

• Frenzy to level 25 in 20 feet for ~10 seconds on Touch
  
• Invisibility on Self for 6 seconds

A great spell for nightblades or sneak characters. Whenever you come upon a group of humanoids (bandits, marauders, conjurers, necromancers), sneak up (or cast another invisibility spell to get close), cast this spell, slink away and watch them kill each other. They continue fighting after Frenzy wears off, so as long as they have a chance to draw their weapons and strike each other. Combine with sneak attacks with poisoned arrows for a good ol' time.

"Tail-Tucker" (Journeyman Illusion, Journeyman Restoration)

• Paralyze in 20ft for 1 second on Touch
  
• Fortify Athletics 15 points for 10 seconds on Self
  
• Fortify Speed 15 points for 10 seconds on Self

Excellent spell to get out of tight situations. Remove the Paralyze effect for a lower-cost spell just to get from place to place. Great for marksman characters who need time to find higher ground - use another short-term Fortify Acrobatics effect if needed.

"Locklicker"

• Fortify Security 100 points for 5 seconds on self

What makes Restoration great? Instant-cast fortify/absorb skill/attribute spells at Journeyman level! Increase any ability (athletics, acrobatics, armorer, blade) amazingly for a short time! Use Fortify Strength/Luck/Blade for great backstabs. Borderline cheating.





Mods Change the Need for Power

Overhaul mods greatly influence the realism of the game. They take away the ego-centric idea of the all-powerful hero, and renew the demand for strategy. If you're on the PC, consider using some mods to influence gameplay. These links have been copied from my must-have mod list, which is available http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081188-guide-how-to-smooth-pc-oblivion-fps/ at the bottom.

I only published this here for fun - mods really don't have much to do with the character class system. Use overhauls if you desire a way to increase difficulty (other than the cheesy in-game slider, which only affects player damage). These mods make the above tips more effective - you will need to use those tips to survive in a tough environment. By no means do you have to even consider using mods at all in order for these tips to be effective with character strength!

Installing them is no cakewalk - Read http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1083993-in-depth-guide-for-installing-fcom-and-non-fcom-setups-with-bain/page__p__15794917&#entry15794917 before beginning the process!

Overhauls: (note: recommend clean Oblivion reinstall and careful planning before using these)

• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14442
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15256
  
• http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1083199-martigens-monster-mod-ooo/page__p__15781615__fromsearch__1&#entry15781615

Gameplay: (purely personal preference)

• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14304
  
• http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25078 or http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4432

Two Example Builds:

Though this is not the Oblivion Character Database, I'd like to throw out two specifically powerful builds. Ultimately, the skill choices here are the culmination of the best parts of all worlds.

Mage-Thief Type

Major Skills:

• Blade
  
• Alteration (or Restoration)
  
• Destruction
  
• Illusion
  
• Marksman
  
• Sneak
  
• Light Armor

While keeping Alchemy and Restoration leveled, this class provides incredible flexibility in combat. Not only do you have access to whacking things with a sharp blade, blasting area of effect spells or shooting things from unreachable places, but you have defensive strength with elemental shields and a full suit of armor - along with the ability to sneak or invisibility past anything. Absolutely great fun, every battle is a strategic challenge. Level up Acrobatics for the Journeyman "Dodge" ability for even more fun.

Battlemage Type

Major Skills:

• Blunt
  
• Block
  
• Heavy Armor
  
• Alteration
  
• Destruction
  
• Restoration
  
• Illusion

Once again, keep Alchemy up and this class is meant to be taken to war against some Deadra. The ability to pound on things with a huge weapon, blast things with elemental spells, and absorb attributes to give a combat boost are complemented with the defensive abilities to wear a big shiny suit of plate mail, stand your ground in melee by blocking, bring up elemental shields against magi, restore your health and disappear if you have to. Also cast feather/fortify speed/athletics spells to get around. A very powerful class, and a great one to roleplay the hero of Cyrodiil. My record with closing Oblivion gates is around 45 with this type of build.

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More to come! I've run out of time, but this thread is still in progress, with your help.

I realize there are different approaches to leveling, but I would prefer this thread not become an argument! Please PM any suggestions, comments or problems you have with these methods rather than debating them here. I will update things as necessary!

Very informative and well put together! This is an amazing reference for new comers and old players alike. Outstanding work!

Excelently done! I agree with just about everything you said so far. Though I feel that one doesn't really need two forms of defence, and the same case with offencive skills. however, I am much anticipating what you have to say for birthsigns.......

In the "Skills That Work Better as Minors" section. All magic skills except destruction and restoration. Even if you are playing a pure mage....Seriously, there are only two magic skills that require real effort to level all the way to 100.

Also, plan your characters to pretty much stop leveling at 30. No good reason to go beyond level 30 ever. Loot doesn't any better as everything has peaked at this level. Several enemies start becomeing insane with hitpoints and attack damage. This is where haveing otherwise useless skills like security, hand-to-hand and mercantile becomes usefull as they drop your max level cap closer to the magic number of 30.

Ultimately, I'm assuming people want to avoid standing around practicing spells. If not, ignore the rest of this.

The benefit of this type of efficient leveling is very small compared to the trouble of leveling schools of magic 20 extra points. This detracts from early game character power, forces periods of "training", and causes the character sheet to be disorganized. Characters with higher skill points DURING the game's content, rather than training up to it, are the more powerful ones.

The difficulty in leveling these skills as minors, combined with the mess of keeping track of a backward class, outweighs the benefits of choosing unusable skills as Majors. What is the benefit of keeping these highly useful skills as Minors, other than to decrease the rate of leveling, or to cause +5's to happen with attributes which are far less valuable than skill scores? Should you keep them as Minors essentially you are only removing your character's power from the early game in trade for hours of "training" (i.e., standing in one spot casting a spell over and over) so that when you are higher level you have a very slight advantage.

If on PC, decrease the rate of leveling by using a mod like Progress. If not using a modded game, you should still have no trouble even if your character levels up too fast; the high skill scores will provide an advantage in combat in the easy vanilla game.



Working through dozens of levels of weakness in order to have a slightly more powerful character capped at level 30 sounds like a dull time to me. With high skill scores in the RIGHT skills, you should be able to handle any situation anyway. This greed to use the character system against itself is counter productive (though I understand how it works, and why people do it). It's easy to forget that during the game itself, from levels 1-20, your character still must be capable of beating foes - and long periods of "training" are boring.

Lopsided in favor of efficiency - too anolytical to be fun, in my opinion. Sacrifice your Major skills to lower the level cap? To me, this is basically like draining the fun out of the character so you have more power and time to play - it doesn't make sense. Even if you do not choose to use mods which slow leveling or provide increased difficulty (without causing this "insane attack damage" present in the vanilla difficulty settings), there are endless opportunities to begin a different character after you have finished the game out, and there always is something new to experience.

Choose Major skills which your character will use over the course of the content - this is how your character actually exists powerfully during the storyline, not by planning for what happens after level 30.

No point in arguing. This is NOT a guide for playing Vanilla Oblvion. It's a guide for a "high difficulty heavily modded game". That's where OP's experience is. As such it should not be posted in this section. It should go in Mods.

Mara

Not exactly. I merely think that the OP was merely trying to address all the FAQs (that seem to come up in the form of threads every few hours) in one thread. One can take partial information away from this thread...or all of it.

NIce work! This will be an excellent guide to new players. I take exception with two items however:

1. You CAN block when using H2H, and block perks at different skill levels DO apply here.
2. I currently have no armor (mage/marksman). At level 20ish, I closed 5 Oblivion Gates, with a specific goal in mind. I enchanted my clothes (and wrist irons from the tutorial dungeon) with two slots of Fortify Magicka 50, one of Frost Shield 25%, one of Fire Shield 25% and one of Shock Shield 25%. This gives me an effective Armor Class rating of 75% to start, whilst wearing street clothes. Yes, I had to do some Oblivion Gating, but the rewards were pretty sweet. Now, I walk around with an AC of 75 as a base, with a minor shield spell, it goes to 85 (the max). I don't find this option inefficient or costly. For 10 hours IRL (I explore the whole plane of Oblivion, not just the gate part) this is a fairly effective way, for spellcasters that is, to get a good Armor Rating while being able to have 100% spell effectiveness. My two septims.

Great!! This is very helpful to, well, everybody! Although I think Mysticism is very helpful for thief-mage characters due to 1 spell- Detect Life, this is THE BEST spell in the game IMHO.

Not true. Too much of this information is still valuable. Just because I'm using mods does not render all of this information moot.

This thread has little to do with mods. Even a high difficulty modded game does not change the character class design system. Using overhauls and a higher difficulty only makes these tips that much more necessary and noticeable.

These still pertain to the vanilla game - the main difference being the quickness with which skills level up. The ways in which people avoid the inherent mechanics of vanilla Oblivion's leveling speed (which pushes you to be quite finished and over-the-top by level 30) - efficient leveling, majors as minors, slow leveling - - are not addressed here because without long periods of "training," struggling to balance skills on a disorganized character sheet, they actually make the character weaker during the first half of the game.

Coping with vanilla Oblivion's too-fast leveling system is unnecessary - I believe the developers knew how to measure it so that you could start several new characters and do different guild factions while still reaching a high level. Mods only reduce the speed of leveling to let one character be the sole powerhouse.


Big Daddy - I'm editing those points into the top thread

truz4 - adding more about Mysticism as well, thanks

Once again, nice work, Albertine. The guide is concise, informative and useful. :goodjob:

I must say that I have to agree with Albertine with this one. This guide works perfectly fine for Vannila oblivion.

I think it is a very good read. Well written, which is to be expected from Albertine. Very informative, and useful for new players I think. At first glance I felt like it was sort of like the Oblivion Character Database, Though it is hardly, has some of the same links. Still it stands as it's own. Good job my friend. Can not wait to see more. :thumbsup:

Regarding your example builds: In #1 you toss off the suggestion that you keep Restoration and Alchemy (minor skills) levelled. Not great advice unless you use a mod to speed the incredibly slow rate at which Resto levels as an off spec minor skill. Build #2 is the stock spellsword with Blunt instead of Blade. It's not a terrible build but surely you can come up with something better than a stock build as an example of following your principles?

Mara

No where does he say it should be tossed as a Minor. In fact it is shown that is should be used as a Major in the Battlemage Type, One of the two Skills to pick as a Defensive Skill. Also Restoration is in the section that shows "Powerful" skills. So where you are getting that he suggested it as a Minor is beyond me. Perhaps you should reread the thread , and in it's entirety. Far as a Stock class with a different skill well consider this. There are barely enough skills, and too many Majors to make anything really unique. Unlike Morrowind where there were not enough skills, and too many slots to fill. So you calling that out is not very strong. It makes a pretty example of a strong class in my opinion.

Usually you post useful information Mara, instead here is looks as though you are picking at the OP. I am just gonna assume you had a bad day, and vented here.

I realize that it was asked that this not turn into an argument thread, however, I do feel compelled to make a couple observations, not as argumentitive, but to just make some points. While I agree with much of it, I really wonder if people who are as critical of the Lord birthsign have ever actually used for whole game. I have used it quite a bit and find the weakness to fire is a minimal issue when you regenerate 90 health so easily. I speak from experience having had many characters that used it and never needed to be levelled efficiently except for a little Intel and Will leveling early on for non magicka enhanced races. It is really good for roleplaying a non magic using meleer. I have had these characters go thru the whole game, the MQ at high level and never need to take single potion. I think that speaks for itself. But I think the post is well written.

Mara, I will PM you and consider removing the example builds. They aren't perfect for everyone, I know, but they are effective under the tips above.

Notice with the first build I put Alteration (or Restoration)...a choice between the two, because they both level slowly. Restoration may well be the better choice. Alchemy belongs as a minor because of the reasons listed above. I had no idea the second build was a stock build, but that doesn't mean it's any less effective.

Avarae brings up a good point and I'm glad for the input - I'll make some changes to the Lord birthsign, thanks

EDIT: Added information to the "Races" section. Fixed the Lord to be less scolding.

Glad it was not taken as a criticism. I think most people are scared of it on paper as it looks more useless than it actually is. Not to beat a dead horse, but I even have used it on Bretons and forgone Restoration as a major, which is a difficult decision to make since Restoration is more useful ultimately, but takes a long time and bit of effort. As a comparison, it takes about an 85 skill in Restoration (with base luck) to make a comparable spell to Blood of the North, which cannot be silenced. For my Female Breton stock Barbarian class it was an easy call though. She didn't use 'spells' at all, and got to level 35 before she ever put a single pt in Intel, once she decided to start brewing her own beer.... She has the Mundane Ring so no fire weakness whatsover. She is the epitome of a berserking barbarian.

Oh, and as a stock class the Barbarian is heavy on the role play and pretty useless on efficient levelling. Once I got tired of wearing any heavy armor, that did get her a few good endurance bonuses, she only got 2 pts per level to put in Str, End, and Speed. It took forever but she finally maxed them out. She never needed it anyway since from the sewers on she could keep Blood of the North active constantly if needed.

Update: Added a section on Racial abilities, as well as one about Melee Combat tips...

NEEDED: Ideas for useful enchantments and spells for specializations; stealth,magic, combat! Comments on racial abilities/combat section most welcome... (shameless bump)

I'll get you some spells a little later, today is client meeting day.

Okay, so I guess we just post some recommendations?

One thing I have noticed in melee combat, if your opponent manages to block an attack which causes you to recoil, you can tap backwards movement in rapid little taps to avoid getting hit while you are recoiled. Your avatar will kind of slide backwards so long as you don't try to block or anything else. I have avoided many counter attacks with that move.

As for spells here are a few combos that are extremely effective

Spell 1
Weakness to Fire and/or Frost, Shock 100 pts for 2 secs on touch
Weakness to Magicka 100 pts for 2 secs on touch (if you can cast the effect, if not the first effect will still work)
Invisibility on self 2 secs

Spell 2
Fire and/or Frost Shock x pts for 5-6 seconds
x = to whatever fairly modes damage you want and can cast cheaply.

In this combo the first spell will stack on itself and if you have even half decent skill and magcika pool, you can cast it as many times as you want. The Invisibility causes it to stack and also makes it where you don't get hit will setting up the chain. It is more effect to have another short duration Inviso spell hotkeyed to approach your prey. If done correctly you can kill every opponent without being touched.

Another strategy is to just use Weakness to Magicka in the first spell then follow it with a Drain Health 100 pts for 1 sec on the second.

Some other good tips I do:
Use short term command spells as they will keep fighting for you after the effect wears off.
Add short term Fortify Magicka effects to almost all your spells and with the right Restoration level, and effect you can greatly reduce the 'cost' of spells as you can regenerate the amount of magicka the Fortify effect takes before the effect wears off.

Anyone know anything about how Luck influences spell costs? For example, would a long-term Fortify Luck spell lower other spells' costs enough that, during that period, its own casting cost would be made up for? :huh:

Actually the better way to do that is to fortify a skill for the next spell. I have also made spells like this

Spell 1
Fortify Magicka 30 pts for 12 secs
Fortify Alteration 100-x for 4 secs - with x being your current skill in Alteration

Spell Two
Shield 40 pts for 30 secs, etc.

Spell one makes spell two cost much less to cast even considering what spell one cost, which is little to nothing with the fortify magicka effect.

You can do lots of variations of that principle.

LOL funniest thing I've heard in a long time, am so going to do that....