read up on the last few pages. Your skills are increased as you use them and as you level up you get perks that help out your play style like in FO3. Also read up on the GI article..........other then that im sorry this is the way you found out

this system results in the exact opposite of what you said. It's hard to grasp for some, but its the truth.


On the flip side...Oblivion had a system where everyone could do everything, they are trying to fix that. Perks will further help this cause, as each skill has it's own perk-tree.

yeah cause i roleplay necromancers, i may also steal, and rip people off their prices and shoot a apple off someones head and decapitate someone with an axe, but when it all comes down to it what i really enjoy is conjuring spirits and raising the dead, thus named necromancer

I know but healthy discussion brings new facts and diverse possibilities to light. like the game recognizing your play style. I think we can agree that this issue very well covered with the facts we have, but Speculation and debate is fun.

agreed

Yea, sure is, although the label thing really shouldn't have come into it at all IMO, because its not mentioned and it doesn't really make a difference if we have labels for pre-made classes or custom classes.

I think my point in this thread was that this new no-premade class system is more intuitive and creative, in my opinion of course. I think labels would still be fine, but I would be willing to sacrifice that if I had to choose between this and what we had before.

I call that leveling up every skill. It simply takes a long time. I see no problem with someone being able to do this if that's what they want. The option is there for that, and for people to stick to a smaller subset of skills.

This likely means the death of the horrible stat multiplier system, by far the thing I disliked most in the leveling system (one of the only things I disliked with Oblivion actually). No longer will I be punished for just playing the game without focusing on those annoying multipliers, forever punished if not maxed correctly. Yay!

I would much rather have this new system over what OB had.

Well the Label is really only the tip of the iceberg isnt it? So many games require us to pick a label we are almost lost when it doesnt. Its almost as we are saying to ourselves "Im going to play this guy this way." and that label helps us define the different characters we have saved and the like. but im going to stop myself before i get too existential

Haha yea, well I'm not saying its a bad thing, what I am trying to point out is that this doesn't say we can't have a label. It was an assumption, which is what I am trying to say. It shouldn't be brought up because they didn't say we can't have labels. We just can't pick from pre-made classes.

it would still be realistic to allow us to choose some skills that start with a higher value

As has been said before; consider the following: In Oblivion, nothing prevented you from increasing the skills you didn't pick as major skills to 100. By doing that, your warrior could be just as skilled in Destruction as a battle mage would have been. In addition, your attributes would be maxed out due to the massive increase of skills that didn't contribute to level increase, and you would face easier enemies due to the levelling problem. So the Oblivion-system encouraged picking a DIFFERENT class than you actually would play - which I suspect many people were doing. This indicates a very broken levelling system.

With this system, you are truly free to define your own class - and it WILL be the class you are actually playing, since it is defined by what you do. It eliminates the levelling exploits of Oblivion. Sounds like a great solution to me, I can't understand why some people actually WANT exploits.

i think the reason for this discussion is not the exploits, as many were annoyed with them, but rather about the label and personal taste. personally i want the exploit away, but keep the class label

I understand, I am still waiting in deep anticipation for my GI to come in the mail. I always get it later then everyone IDK why.

Honestly I'm starting to see sense in this new system. Being able to Master all skills doesn't seem so godly now as it's the Perks that will specialise your character. If they make the perk system relatively balanced and with enough choices to define areas of skills then it'll be fine. I will miss having my Class Name next to my character onthe menu, it helped put a bit more characterisation to a playthrough, but I'm sure I'll get used to it not being there.

Bah I dont like no Class system , I liked a lot their classes presentations at the beginning I wished instead that they could become more strict and so you could chose mage or warrior or thief and stick to that for all adventure , not to become an all round spellmakerslasherrobbring ...

like chimer_warrior says: we dont know if we cant label our classes, it is just an assumption

Yeah, I was adressing Cabius' concerns specifically. The exploit-part referred to those users in this thread who has expressed regret that the ability to exploit the system apparently is going to be removed. I have no opinion on the "labeling"-bit, I don't care if they remove it, I don't care if they leave in a box where I can name my class. My guess is they won't let you label it.

I cant wait for the GI to give out certain information about this new system so we don't have to guess anymore

I'd agree there, I'd consider upgrading skills without it counting towards leveling one of the flaws of the class system in the Elder Scrolls, because it was very easy to exploit in order to allow players to get very high attribute multipliers in all attributes, and combined with level scaling in Oblivion, allowed for, even encouraged an unnatural play-style where players would intentionally set most of the skills they actually intend to use regularly as minor skills, thus allowing them to raise these skills very high without causing enemies to level up.

I don't really mind the absence of classes, myself, as they didn't seem all that important in past games anyway, the main difference they made in the long run was determine what skills let you level up, and that mostly seemed to cause exploits, so I don't mind that Bethesda has chosen to remove classes. I'm not sure if I'll like the new character system better or not, but I'm not going to object to it just because it involves removing classes.

As to labeling classes, I honestly didn't care about that at all, I don't need a label to tell me what kind of character I want to play, indeed, not having the label might have its advantages as I feel more comfortable playing my character in the way that feels right, which isn't always what I planned for when I initially created my character, if I create the class I want to play for a character and then name that class a certain name, then I end up not playing the character according to that name, it feels a little odd, and in the end, I often just didn't bother naming my classes, just "Adventurer" describes what my characters usually do pretty well anyway.

Really, the main problem I could see not having classes causing would be that classes in the Elder Scrolls also allowed you to define what skills and attributes started higher for you, as your major skills and favored attributes started higher for other ones, which helps to reflect that your character may have already been better at some things than others before the start of the game. But this could also be adressed by introducing something similar to how "tagged" skills worked in Fallout 3, in other words, allowing you to choose some skills at the start which would be higher than others. Or if they want to give you more freedom in character creation, allow the player to distribute a certain amount of skill points freely among skills to raise your starting skills, enough to give you some room for customization, but not enough to raise your skills really high early on.



You can already do that in both Morrowind and Oblivion, and getting rid of classes doesn't necessarily mean anyone can do everything, lots of RPGs don't have classes and still don't end up with players mastering all skills, Fallout is one example, with the possible exception of Fallout 3, mostly with Broken Steel since it raised the level cap ten levels above what the game was originally meant to have. Really, with or without a class system, it all comes down to how the game is balanced, removing the class system just means that your character's abilities are defined by how you choose to develop your character over the course of the game, not which class you select at the start.

maybe they should add class names, and the option to change it whenever you want.

Yeah, I'm not sure this new system will eliminate this either. It would be possible to pull this off and still keep a bonus by redistributing points like the attribute system in the Chargen of Daggerfall.

Yeah, I like that idea bliviongate:

Not having a class system would make it feel weird joining a class-based faction, like a mages' guild or Skyrim equivalent. How can I join a (class name) guild if there are no (class name)s? Unless they do away with factions with class names and just have the College of Whisperers (I think that's it?) and some other Nord-based one, like how the dunmer had the Great Houses.

Are ya serious? If you use a lot of magic, join the magic-oriented guilds. If you do a lot of conventional combat, go join a fighter-oriented guild, and so on. I never played as a "Telvanni"-class character in TES III, didn't stop me from joining their guild. Why? Because I like using magic. Not having a class name with the word "mage" in it doesn't prevent me from knowing that.

lol man thats hilarious little gate thing rofl