.........Absolute win.......:lmao:

I'm adding that to future criticisms of the game when it comes out, this will be blatantly used lol!

I for one am glad that attributes are gone, as well as the stupid "pick a class" thing early on in the game.


I 100% agree with Todd that when playing oblivion in the starting dungeon you are having fun killing monsters using a variety of tools available. But once you pick those class skills you feel stuck and forced to use them in order to level up (that and why use a blunt weapon when your blade skill is 25 and your blunt is only 5?).


The fallout 3 perks were awesome, and I just wished there was more and a greater variety. It seems Bethesda is truly plays their games as 280 is plenty and should be great!

If FO3, with its 92 perks including DLC's and quest perks of which you are not garunteed to get all of them in one play through are lacking Variety.

What makes you think 280 perks that are for skills, not quest perks will have more variety?

We don't think that it is a new invention, we think that its a better system=)

Glad you liked it

Those who don't like redundancy shouldn't worry too much. I think there will soon be a mod that lets you skip all those overly complex things, so you get the same result in a more streamlined way.
You know. The things between you and the end credits. The game.

I've reached the point where I am profoundly annoyed by this argument from redundancy. I bet you also think having more than one gender is redundant because you can reproduce asixually. Yet sixual reproduction is responible for all the complexity of life we see today.
I think it was worth it.

I loved perks in Fallout 3. They were neat and fun. Only thing I don't like that much is the name perk

Yeah, but I don't know what they would call it if not perks

Traits, abilities, Talents....

Just the other side is annoyed with the argument of this change is a"dumbing down" of the game. Unfortunately both sides will never see that they can't agree, and will just keep using the same arguments forever. Hooray for the internet.

no, no, no......those don't cut it, it has to be called perks. There is no other way around it, it just has to be called perks.

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I'll address your last points with this little snippit just because I am strong, doesn't mean I can be strong for long, just because I am brimming with Magicka, doesn't mean Im smart, just because I have a ships load of health, doesn't mean I can brush of damage with a laugh. Attributes did this, and if they were refined, they would do a hell of alot more. Life isn't about pressing buttons especially in a game thats telling you to live another world.


Hmm NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I AM NOT saying keep the old Attribute system lol, I agree hold heartedly the old system was flawed, it needed work, but the plus fives and Attribute micromanaging was entirely due to Levelscaling, and players not wanting to have all their hardwork mean nothing because enemies skipped along with with you in strenght and equipment.

FIX it, I could easily bring up some intricate system on how Skills, Attributes and Perks could make an amazing interplay and give something the likes of which not witness in time immemorial, I don't have a Problem with perks stop addressing the otherside like they have an issue with perks, we're saying stop flushing the annoying Perk replaces attributes bit there are examples given to even the extent Todd Says Perks hold relations to Skills and that that relationship is supposed to "make up for" no attributes.

If the Old system was redundant then FIX it not axe it and Say Health Stamina and Magicka are Atrributes, they aren't. Attributes Made those bars what they were as well as effecting the Skills and aspects of the character, if it svcked, Change it, make it matter and have that fleshed out in the game, no one is going to recognize your a theif purely on perks, and why should perks say whether or not Im a theif in game? should not my Attributes and Skills of which impart are visible to the ingame chars state that Im a thief? why should I have to rely on spells to charm people and make them *think* Im a good person? is speechcraft not the art of acquiring information through Hostile or friendly vocabulary? what if my speechcraft svcks? I know a few Likable people who aren't eloquent in their choice of words, and since when is it bad to use simple words to get simple or even complex points across? Speech craft doesn't equate to a Good or Bad personality and is just another drop in the bucket to the *blank slate* business going on here.






:lmao:

I haven't seen the HUD. I wonder if the health meter will look like a row of little hearts. Maybe you can get more hearts (increasing your health) from completing quests and finding them in secret places. At level up, if you choose to increase health, you can get an extra heart.

I remember my little brother saying when he played Fallout for the first time...

"I wish Oblivion had perks!"

That is enough proof right here. A child's laughter lets us know when the Developers does something right.

Oh, let's not even go there :rolleyes:

I guess nobody cares about the perk system anymore.....my job is done=P

I know I am going to love this new system. With the attributes, sometimes I would catch myself focusing on leveling, rather than playing. I would level everything accordingly, so my character was perfected(every single attribute at 100). The new system will solve this for me, because it will be impossible to get every perk. I think this new system is going to work great.

Perks for things like luck; like on FO3 how you could get perks that make you find more caps in containers, or have a much higher chance of getting a critical hit on an enemy amd a lot of agility/speed-type skills are in the Stamina category.

There's three ways attributes could be "fixed'.

One is making them more static, like in Fallout. This will never happen just because of the game's philosophy of evolving your character during the game, not character creation.

Second would be making attributes matter more, making them less redundant (yes, I went there), but that would require a big change in skills. Skills won't have numerical number or at least that won't matter as much on the usage, instead it would be perks that matter more.

Third, remove attributes, let the skills manage most of the parts (like always) by themselves. Oh wait... silly me this is "axing" not "fixing". How could I mix the two up?

As long as they don't remove trainers, leveling won't change for me. At all. :shrug:

Maybe they should remove them. Their whole creed is that you get better in things you do, but I only got better in things I bought.

Attributes are gone from the game, replaced by magicka, health and stamina. If you really really over simplify it, yes those three things are our new attributes. But they aren't attributes per ce, it's the root of them, as Todd says it.

Not in Oblivion. You could only train 5 skill per level up and you needed 10 skill increases for a level.

I completely understand the reasoning behind removing the stats, and it's a logic move, game-play wise. For me it really just kills part of the relationship I usually have with an RPG character. I wish they would go back to the old 3-18 range attribute system from ye RPGs of olde, without increases to those attributes except in under really special circumstances. That gives me a better picture of my character, and it also makes it a lot more exciting when you actually do get that +1 to Strength either from divine intervention, a potion or magic book or something you really fought hard to get. The automatic attribute increase at each level was useless and just made it all feel so automated.

Well what next need to be removed from game also? Why all want remove some feature from game while better to fix it?
Trainers was fixed in Oblivion because of training sessions was limit per level, while in Morrowind no any limitations for training was besides money.
Trainer can teach unique perks, and can have unique quests and personalities, for example require sparring for combat perks, hunting for archery, brewing unique potion out rare ingredients, etc, not just train for money, also they can has training limit so cannot teach skill higher then they have by self or have skill requirement before PC can start learn from them.

BTW Intelligence overhaul mod add feature what change cost and number of training session per level according to character Intelligence, so character actually become smarter with Intelligence not just increase his Magicka limit like Todd say.