Um, yep, add some jumpers.

Or

Is jumping on a rock th eway it just another tool in box for a player to use?

Me, I use it all the time. So I can jump higher than others :shrug:

i know higher acrobatics should have a use, but lets just make it that it can save your life because as it is in oblivion its pretty much game over for melees as soon as you reach the top of the rock/wall

This whole issue would be avoided if enemies had better AI. If enemies could jump, then it really wouldn't be a problem as they could reach any place you can by normal means. Or if that can't be done for whatever reason, than have the enemies just go hide somewhere where they can't be hit from said high place if they have no way to attack you there, then you'd be forced to go down to look for them, there, problem solved.



Indeed, I'm quite fine with using the environment to you're advantage, that's things like taking cover when you're being shot at. and that's perfectly natural. But strategies that only work because of bad AI or other flaws in design are the sort of thing I don't mind not being able to do.

Yes please!

Also the possibility of tall giants and flying dragons might prove to no use on a high rock.

I always thought of reaching a place they couldn't and raining death from above was simply gaining a tactical advantage :shrug: but it is sort of unfair that if they have no form of ranged attack they are doomed so maybe an improvement to the AI is needed, so they loot a ranged weapon from a fallen ally, or they simply take cover or something.

it's not a flaw in oblivion, we are given options on how to survive and if people find ways to survive better, than those options are a plus to those people who use them.

The problem is not in the player jumping on the top of a rock. It's that the AI don't do the same.
The solution is making the AI more smart and capable, not to force the player to act dumb.

Exactly
What are we supposed to be expected to do not jump on top of things? That would defeat the purpose of the acrobatics skill and really there's not much else you can use that skill for.

Very well stated.

I like the solution proposed by multiple posters of, if no other option is working for the opponent, it should flee. As someone in real life would prefer to do rather than watch their health continue to decrease while no progress is made against the player's health.
Offensive spells which spread over an area may be a useful counter to try as well. As might be bows, tactical repositioning, etc. Although after trying these various, offensive counters, the opponent still might not be able to get out of their pickle (thus the fallback option of fleeing.) What I always did in both Oblivion and Morrowind was to crouch down on a high place so that I was beyond the line of fire of any opponents' range weapons, and then repeatedly summon minions until the opponents were dead.

Personally I find jumping onto a hard-to-reach spot to be a natural reaction for me to do when playing immersively in order to escape the chase of a deadly creature, or in order to get in a single sneak attack. So the temptation to get up there is an immersive temptation of basic survival. But for that tactic to also result in a patient level-1 character destroying level-20 monster who just sits there taking repeated attacks, ...well, it would be much preferable to play an AI which could react appropriately to that situation. Unless they're mindless zombies of course.

Indeed, there seems to be a surprising tendency here for players to defend exploitable features, whereas the usual approach would be to remove potential exploits, but at least in some cases, you could argue that the "exploit" is a logical option, like 100% chameleon, it just can make the game too easy if it's used. But here, the problem isn't that you have the option to jump onto a rock, no one is saying that should be removed, at least, I for one don't, nor is it that you shouldn't be able to do things to get you an advantage that you wouldn't otherwise have. The problem is that the AI doesn't know how to react intelligently to players attacking them from places they can't reach, and fixing that is a logical course of sction because it's a sign of bad AI.

I'd like to see this addressed. I think it's ridiculous that you can stand on a big rock shooting arrows/spells while enemies try to run "through" the rock to get to you. Even though I primarily play "ranged combat" characters, I don't use this exploit.

Something like this would be cool, in a lot of other games were there is an xp based system its annoying when enemies run, but with TES system that is not an issue, I always like to use AI mods in Beth games that make npc run more often.

Something like this would be cool, in alot of other games were there is an xp based system its annoying when enemies run, but with TES system that is not an issue, I always like to use AI mods in Beth games that make npc run more often.

heres a number of uses

-you get to a high enough place where youre safe so you recuperate, but enemies hide/flee/pull up shields so they dont become sitting ducks
-you get to an otherwise unreachable item, it would be great to have some items reachable only (not even telekinesis) by high athletics, just hoping it would mean a really long jump and not a really high one as in oblivion i looked like i was full of helium
-you get nice evasion perks
-you get jumping on the surface of water

i think its enough uses to keep it an interesting skill and still get that crappy AI fixed

Good to see this problem is up, couse i found it hilarious you can be almost 100% safe if you just climb a rock

Bad AI, that's all i can come up with, let's hope it's better in skyrim

Maybe they (those who have hands) should throw rocks so you would fall from the rock.

I'm so sick of people that can't see blatant flaws in the gameplay like Oblivion's "no jumping NPCs" . so I'm the only guy that can jump in all of cyrodiil and all I have to do to become invincible is jump on a rock? SERIOUSLY???

they better fix this kind of stuff.

Dragon sits on you - counter

You see this is the problem with todays gamer. They not only expect the developers to make the game challeging they also expect them to parent the player and somehow prevent them from explointing bugs or whatever. here's my solution..... SHOW SOME [censored] RESTRAINT! if you cannot seem to resist exploiting bugs or whatever then stop playing the game but why the hell should a game be designed around your lack of restraint ?

You replaced his one extreme with the opposite extreme. Just because a game can never remove all possible exploits, it doesn't mean they shouldn't try to a certain degree. Also, some exploits are simply the result of a flawed system, not effort on the part of a player to exploit the system. For example, I often ran away from enemies in Oblivion while shooting arrows. When I did so, I often accidentally ended up on top of a rock, and mysteriously the enemies didn't follow me. Once I was on the rock, I had to make the conscious decision to jump off, negating an advantage I stumbled into unknowingly. Having to play a certain way because the system is broken IS immersion breaking, and should be changed. Exploits like duplication are different, because they involve effort on the part of the player to loophole the game. The rock glitch is a problem and should be dealt with. Over the course of the game it happened to me many times.

:facepalm:
STOP IT ALREADY!!!
Really, stop it, I'm serious.
Are you even aware how much stuff one should ignore in order to enjoy Oblivion?
If I ignored everything that should be fixed, I could simply ignore the whole game all together and go out and have six.



Well, this is true.
If NPC could counter you jumping on the rock outside its reach, then fine by me.
But most of the NPCs simply stuck their heads into the wall/rock and don't even try to find a way to climb up while there is one just few meters aside.
I mean, how stupid is that?

Only because game is SP, that doesn't mean it should have stuff to abuse!
A proper game should stand alone perfectly fine without any abuses and bugs in SP!
That's what a GOOD game does and a BAD one doesn't.

Now, message to people.
Please, people, don't be retards, I beg you, PLEEEEEEAAAAAASSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

This wasn't really possible in Fallout when fighting melee enemies, so they've probably sorted it already.

That would be awesome.

The new AI - problem solved.

For every exploit that exists in a game, there is just as easily a reason it could have happened naturally. Why is that wolf stuck on the rock below? An AI exploit, or a real problem? Perhaps his foot got wedged in a rock and he couldn't pull himself free? Perhaps it stepped in a trap? Perhaps it didn't "see" where you hid yourself, and it can't determine what it should do? Perhaps its already feeble-minded and can't make sense of anything, gone sort of crazy, not a rational animal, or has rabies or tetines or something ?

Can the programmers think of all those behaviors and program them in? No, but they are a part of reality, so in essence we are being cheated of the realities that would and often cause our enemies to fail naturally. So why shouldn't a few exploits we find not be the equivalent of what they DIDN'T give us in the first place? Their lack of covering every way our enemy can fail is covered up by the poor A.I. ... efficiency isn't everything, that's why the American government was built to be non efficient and slow, to allow for the most Justice. An efficient government makes too many mistakes on the side of execution, and how then can they take that back once they've figured out the truth? They can't.

In the same way, the game designers can't program IN every way our enemies fail. So if the A.I. glitching occasionally gives us a benefit of some kind, who's to say life (reacting naturally on its own) wouldn't have provided that same glitch in the enemy's advance another way?

It's fair, people. It really is.

The A.I. glitch problem is fair, so leave it there. Or else fix it, but then you've got to program in all the ways the enemy possesses to make their own mistakes that would give us the same advantages and them the same disadvantages ... and then they would have to do that for us too. That's just too much a programming nightmare. Really.