I dunno BG, I still think Khajiit with long hair make me think of this site http://www.kittywigs.com/ :hehe:

And yep, modding it kind of like an addiction, one I have been trying to avoid since I spent many an hour on Morrowind and rather like being long since retired.

After messing around with Max for a while I realize how rusty I am as well as how much different Oblivion is to mod for than Morrowind. *sigh* But I'm stubborn so maybe I will come up with something sooner or later. We'll see.

well, I don't know about everyone else, but I personally like having as many hair choices as I can get my mitts on. So I had the 2ch version of BP before this, and there's a huge number of hairs included that are not part of COBL races. Plus the latest version of Saram added 4 new hairs. And there is another Japanese hair mod, http://oblivion.forum.jpmod.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=88, too.

Now if I wanted to make a mod for my own use to add these hairs I would just need to bash tag it {{BASH:hair}} correct?

Cute .

In the end a matter of taste, I guess. The Oblivion NPCs that is, not this... website :ahhh: .


Agreed.


*runs off to include them into RBP*

Correct. And here I'd like to also mention the problem with all Japanese / asian mods: Getting permission. Some like idkrrr write that their resources can be used in English, others... well, communication isn't easy. Took me long enough (unfortunately too long for Cobl races) to get the okay to include 2ch. How long was it? Since spring or something. :/.

Hmm, I checked out those new Japanese hairs. Surpisingly, I actually like most of them. Probably because they look fantasy. Some are very LOTR Elven looking to me. The Dragonball hair and super hairsprayed up ponytails I can live without though and are going to straight to my detele bin and yanked out of the esp.

For those who'd prefer to see them first before they download a 20MB file here are the pictures

http://pws.cablespeed.com/moliva/HS01.jpg http://pws.cablespeed.com/moliva/HS02.jpg

Oh and a minor nitpick, and yes I know I am being anol here , but you might want to white out the Korean flag from the Saram texture or put a Tamriel rune symbol or something on it. It's rather jarring to go through the race creation screen in a fantasy game and see the Korean flag pop up on a headband.

Anyway, I did it in my game. It was easy enough to do, just open the dds, highlight the flag, hit erase, then resaved it.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8438? Supposed to be a lore based race. BTW there is several fix patches besides that file.

Personally I'd like to see the 'lore' races get put in, Tang Mo, Tsaeci (sp?) etc

True. I would love to gain permission to use them.

Sadly I can't read japanese (no english readme), and my contact into the japanese world is on vacation.

I would love that! A texture artist around here, maybe? Replacing it e.g. with the dragon symbol of the Empire?



Unfortunately there are at least two people you'd need to convince here:
- Wrye, who is worried about filesize.
- me, who is worried about how to get a race integrated.

Even if I am convinced (which I lastly was, therefore RBP has three more races. RBP is in a way the source of Cobl Races), this doesn't mean that Wrye gets convinced, too. The three races didn't find their way into Cobl races (yet?) .

About the Lilmothiit: Several mods (another example to-be-converted-to was the Soquii mod) were suggested for RBP, none was usable due to insufficient body mod support. Both RBP and Cobl should be useable by all people, not only by those using a specific body mod .

I see the flag in the saram texture, but I'm not seeing it show up on any of the meshes when loaded into Nifscope (at least the ones that I have). Which hair style specifically does it appear in?

(If it does not appear ingame, it may be no more than a 'watermark' that the artist uses to show the origin of his or her work. :shrug: )

With regard to adding new races, I can only speak from a player perspective. I used Beautiful People once ... and can think of nothing worse than paging through 6 races (and 4000 weird eyes) that I will never use in 100 years, just to get to the ones I want. I had to ask myself how many people actually seriously played those races, let alone for 300 hours... and that was why I quit using BP. So I think Wrye and bg are right in being quite discerning about adding every new race that comes along (though I've added my own reason). Plenty of independent race mods exist, for those who want them; but not everyone does.

sarammtype22 (note the double m), it's on one side of the barrette.


About the races, I think the two important important factors are redundancy and appeal.

Redundancy: I remember the cosmetic compilation, which I've used before doing my own cosmetic additions in RBP. It had no less than eight versions of Mystic Elves alone. It may be this experience that I'm reluctant to add very similar races into RBP (and likewise Cobl Races*), like dozens of elven races, which main feature is to look pretty :shrug:.

* = Note: There are several people who could include races into Cobl. Wrye looks mostly how useful a race would be for a modder. I've got other points of interest .

Appeal: That's how likely it is that someone is going to play the race. I remember from one of the unofficial BP update projects the project leaders asking "is anyone playing Tang Mo?", and a bit later "out with them!"

To be honest appeal and redundancy are a bit at odds. Usually "pretty" races, while being highly redundant, are having a higher appeal than some of the more monstrous races (like the Xivilai).

My personal take is "first look for uniqueness, then if that's a given evaluate if the race has enough appeal". In which uniqueness is the opposite of redundancy.

Many people will not play certain races. Example given those those that don't like even the idea of Khajiit won't likely play an Ohmes-raht. That's fine. No race is for everyone, and that's also true of Oblivion's ten default races . I think it's important that a race has something that makes them interesting to play, way behind mere "first look appeal". And that's something where I think the "pretty only races" fall flat. An Ohmes-raht, a Xivilai, a Sea Elf, they offer something more than just an easier time with the facegen slider. My opinion, at least .

Concering the eyes, I was asked once why I didn't use Elaborate Eyes (instead of Capucine's) as base for my NPCDiversity: Due to how the textures are mapped (EE having a lot of blank space, also two eyes to support different eye colors for each eye), one eye texture of EE is two to twenty times bigger than a corresponding Capucine eye texture (without imho looking better in game). All used eyes for NPCs in NPCDiversity (which are about ~120) don't need as much memory as the few standard eyes in their EE version. Compare: The 120 eyes used take up 6,8 MB. Only Vanilla eyes in EE style are already at 9,4 MB. Remember how many eyes there are in Vanilla, not that much .
And using EE itself for a NPCDiversity? And there goes another hog of texture memory...
(To be honest I wish I had the skill to convert the Ohmes-raht eyes to the D-mesh, too, but... meh.)

looking to reinstall ob, haven't played since june. looking for new character, wondering what start stats and attributes are for each new race?

I think I want to play a quick moving Sorcerer type charcter whom can hold his own in a brawl with these majors: Acrobatics, Alteration, Athletics, Block, Blade, Destruction, Restoration.

I'm currently using RBP. I love the balancing and diversity, but I don't really want the non-race related changes (game setting changes.) I'm using nGCD, Progress, Supreme Magicka and (temporarily removed) Willful Resistance. Those are the mods that I want to handle the other character related calculations. So my question is, does COBL Races include any of those other changes?
- Tomlong75210

Cobl Races is only new races and cosmetics. Cobl Races Balanced is new races + cosmetics + birthsign and race changes according to RBP's ideas, but without any of the other stuff (like Magicka).
Note to self: GMST resetters as part of RBP can be removed.

Oh, gods I saw Shuravi - the proprietor of Three Sisters Inn and lived to tell the tale! Khajiit with Ren's hair No 16! And cute eyes!

guys, thank you for the first belly laughter for the new 2009! (wipes a tear and carries on gigglin')

Two small little tidbits of infos:
- as I've put together the NPCDiversities, they first came without hair changes to Khajiit, but with TNR's beast race face changes for the TNR merge. I got two requests back then: 1. Keep TNR's changes to beast races out. 2. Also do something about Khajiit.
- in nearly 1? years no one ever complained about Khajiit in the RBP release and discussion threads (after I used the TNR without them as base for the merge).

Now since CR's release it's about the seventh or eight time I've read similar remarks (although some a lot more snarky) towards NPCDiversity's Khajiit. So I'd just like to say two things:
- I consider complaining now, after about 18 months without a single mention of this perceived issue as quite rude ignorant. It's not like anyone should be surprised by the Khajiit, there are pictures of NPCDiversity showing them, even the most eccentric cases.
- I regret working on Cobl Races. And this is not only the Khajiit thingy. Another example? Cobl Races Balanced is in essence just RBP without it's Magicka system and retroactive endurance. The balance between races and birthsigns is identical between CRB and RBP. I was and am fully aware that RBP is not for everyone, and I had expected (as it happened) that some people would disagree, even develop their own race rebalance mods just so that users have an alterantive to my mod (some of them even cited my mod ). So far, so good. What I didn't expect is that some people are using now CRB, sprouting about that it's a great mod and all that, and either (a.) are claiming that it's the first mod doing such a thing / doing such a thing right, or (b.) coming from the same people which are / were (?) staunch opponents of RBP (of course not in it's thread, but all over the place).

This ... well, it doesn't hurt, but it makes me kind of angry. And sad. Mostly angry. What it will do though is deeply influence my disposition towards future customanding requests (none will ever be even considered), and requests to help with other projects (again zero chance of success).


PS: Shuravi uses Corean hair 24, not Ren's 16.

I'm sorry to hear that; this got released about the time I went on vacation and I haven't played again since coming back, so I've not tried it out, but it seems good to me.

To me the biggest problem is that people expect the mod makers to do everything for them. I've tweaked dozens of downloaded mods to suit my own tastes. If I found a Khaajit with hair I didn't like I'd be more likely to just change the hair in TES4Edit myself than feel obliged to make comments about it. TES4Edit is super-easy to use and a paralysed hippo could tweak mods using it, but time and again people on these (and other) forums prefer to make "requests". I've been lucky until now that II is so "under the radar" that I have had very few unwelcome posts, mainly because so few people use it.

Try not to be overly disheartened; I'm sure no malice was intended by many of the posters, and all the ignorance about RBP is, well, ignorance. The world's full of it, alas.

And just to make sure it's said: thankyou bg2408 for this!

Vac

Edit: I feel obliged to point out that I do actively encourage requests for II, but only ones that make sense or are possible: "I don't see the crossbow mod" [response: what crossbow mod?] and "I won't use it until it doesn't need Bash" spring to mind as the kind I don't like.

Peace, bg2408! You must know you are my personally favourite modder and i would never complain against something that is new, fresh, interesting and unexpected!
this was not a complaint. I repeat, this is NOT a complaint
This was an attempt (a lame one) to share a cool moment in game.
I actually can tell you why it is even immersive.

Have you seen white people trying to imitate black people? hairstyle, slang, mannerisms?
And vice versa, have you seen plack people trying to imitate white people? Blond hair, her hair, cosmetic surgery to make their noses small like button?b
This is called vanity. It happens in real life. A lot.
Now I see it in Oblivion and I like it. because it reminds me of the real life situations I have seen and found funny.
Same here. Why shouldn't Shuravi be vane? Actually she looks with her hairstyle a lot like a cousin of mine to be honest.

We all should be allowed to have vanity moments because it is human. And in some way cute.
I would be proud if I were you, bg2408.
I think that COBL Races is the big mod for 2009 and will take a lot to beat it...

I am sorry that my attempt to share my pleasure with COBL Races. The only thing I wish to say is sorry.
But you have to forgive me, bg2408 because I am an ill man.
I suffer from a very common disease called 'Foot In Mouth Disease' and all people suffering from it are excused for all troll things they might drop in conversation.

And don't think I am ingrateful because ATM am courting J'shivrizza in Skingrad.

Please forgive me and be sure that COBL Races brought new light and colour in my game. And I am not that bad when I am in remission from this Foot In Mouth thing.
:cookie:

Don't regret working on COBL, bg. :icecream: It has brought happiness (and stability) to races, eyes, and hair for many people. It will allow modders to get on with modding, instead of worrying over race cosmetics. And for some folks, that's a godsend in itself. But for those who want more... I hope that soon there will be a certain 'something' which will show RBP 10 as a separate mod in all its grandeur :ninja: .

Oops. Sorry that it hit you, then . The Khajiit "issue" became a somewhat sour spot, that I did even see complaints where none were, big apology!

And thanks for the cookie + nice words .


To be honest that is in a way my justification for Khajiit with hair (well, not the cousin bit ). According to Lore Khajiit are Mer. According to Lore they have hair - only there's a tradition very popular in Elsweyr for Khajiit to shave their hair, in honor of the Mane (spiritual Khajiit leader). But, as you already see in Oblivion, only few Khajiit still follow this tradition (some of the Khajiit bandits even have small manes themselves). And now why would all female Khajiit in Cyrodiil follow this tradition and run around "bald". Kittywigs here, kittywigs there, lore wise it doesn't make sense that a few Khajiit don't have long or a bit more cute hairs.

The real reason for their relatively "baldness" is that no default hair style fits any Khajiit, they cause really bad "holes" between forehead and hair. And the more "hairy" hair styles are mostly male only (because they look quite 'unfemaly'). It's a matter of limited resources. According to Oblivion all Orcs have the same eye color, all Argonians have the same eye color, all female Khajiit are bald... limited resources. I mean, just look at the poor Wood Elves: Many of them are known to have completely black eyes, yet show me only one in Oblivion with black eyes (reanimated ones don't count!). And they're known for some kind of "face body art" which results in "bump" tribal markings on their forehead. Absent in Oblivion. Why? Limited resources. It gets even weirder: Both Arena's and Daggerfall's Khajiit had hair (...). And in Oblivion? It should tell you something that the Devs didn't even have the resources to give Wood Elves their black eyes . I mean, how hard it would have been to just put a black eye texture together...

So yeah, I hereby say "Khajiit deserve to have some hair :mohawk: !"

No need to be sorry . I have to be, for understanding you the wrong way - sorry!

True. And to be honest I think as soon as you're going to use a lot of mods that becomes a necessity. I mean if I wouldn't have used a lot of clothing mods together, my Oblivion would have likely exploded by now :blink:.


:lmao: , best description ever! Paralysed hippo...




The Wrye Bash one is a classic! I mean some people think that by saying something should be used with Bash (or requires Bash, eek!) is some kind of malice, while there simply isn't another way.

(Considering how many emails I get concerning Bash I guess dev_akm must have some kind of automatic filter in his email account: "if topic contains 'Wyre' or 'Bash', delete" ).




daemondarque: Thanks !

While the misunderstanding seems cleared up... I've got to chime in with my .02 cents worth!

I'm a new FCOM user. As a newbie, getting a stable, up-n-running FCOM setup can *feel* like finding the Holy Grail.

I had the Holy Grail.

I *risked* (subjective feeling) endagering my precious FCOM setup and RESTARTED my character I'd already poured a LOT of time into JUST so I could start him from scratch using Cobl Races.

Perhaps restarting a char and adding new mods isn't a big deal to some, but it was to me. Cobl Races with all the new things it added made my game sooo much more interesting. The Cobl Races Balanced changes made my choice of character and attributes/birthsigns/etc. FINALLY matter.

I still can't figure out where I got the "Flaming Blood" effect that gives me an (apparently) non-functioning Disintegrate Armor (500) ability [is this a good thing or bad thing???], and it doesn't matter (since I'm pretty sure it's not coming from Cobl Races according to folks who posted responses to my earlier questions about it). What matters is that I am trying to express my gratitude for the mod -- heck, ALL my mods -- which has further enhanced my enjoyment of a game that could have been collecting dust a year ago.

Tom

I've been reading the thread and I haven't seen it mentioned, but..

Do I need Shivering Isles to take full advantage of this mod? Particularly the races + such? (Saints, Seducers, etc.)

Has anyone tried?

ALSO: So, the googly eyes thing happens with the Beautiful People mod? Gee, that svcks. D: My main's a Mystic Elf. I don't think I can use the races mod. Sounded so interesting, too. <:P


edit: added "a" to "thred"

bg2408: I've talked privately with bg2408, so I won't repeat that here. But again, for public consumption, Cobl is very much indebted to him for his work on Cobl races. The addition of races is helping Cobl substantially, making it even more of a standard. Again, very much appreciated.

Credits: This might be a good time to remind folks of the http://wrye.ufrealms.net/Cobl.html. Cobl is a bit strange in that large chunks of it are aggregations of other mods, so authorship gets a bit complicated. So, if you're enjoying foods from Salmo's bakery, that almost purely the work of Tarnsman. Ditto the Ohmes-Raht is mostly the work of Luchaire. A bunch of hairstyles, eyes and the Hidden Elves race are all entirely by Ren. Alchemical sorters (originally the work of Phoenix Amon) are now mostly the work of Haama. Etc. Etc. Too many to list here (so see link above)!

Race Additions: I will be making some more additions to races later this month. At the least I'll be duplicating the recent race additions to RBP. Just a question of time. (I'm busy with some major additions to Bash and RL is keeping me more busy these days.)

Apollyna: For now, Cobl Races requires Shivering Isles. The problem is that the playable Aureal and Mazken races requires resources from SI. (Also, for CRB, there's a lesser power that generates bone arrows that requires SI bone arrow models.) That will probably be fixed in the future. (But for now, I would just recommend geting SI -- it's quite nice.)

For BP: CR has Mystic Elves (but they're called Hidden Elves), so if you're willing able to switch your PC over to that, you'll be fine. Main hassle is switching racial spells and stuff. Hopefully I'll have time to make that a bit simpler and/or write a guide to doing it, but for now... You might try doing it yourself to see how it goes.

In RBP I've got a module switching them to already existing textures / meshes (although they'll lose a bit of their uniqueness in the process). Shouldn't be too hard to do the same for CR / CRB (unfortunately it will need to modify the races, therefore conflict with the current system of CRB depending on CR). Could result in .esp number bloating .

McLean, maybe it's crossmods problem? maybe Cobl races adds vanilla ability (not yet used in races), that some other mod modifies? Check with tes4view

Bg2048: its not worth to think badly about your work... if you feel too tight, working withWrye, everytime you can add "better" (as you wish) balancing patch on top of the cobl races... or made RBP work on top of Cobl ... or something....
Cobl is great work, all knows not all credits goes to wrye, but his concept is great... tighting to Cobl Races is better, than situation of having 12 types of Blue eyes each for another race or from another cosmetic patch (and same for another res)... CobL makes a way to avoid those, and let feel appreciated, that your work is maked for common use as part of CobL... don't feel that your credits go to wrye... heads up, cooperation is better
as somebody saw about complexity "more is diffrient" eg. working together makes better effects than each work on his own

EDIT: my reply isn't too fresh (its for earlier posts).... sorry... but i leave them, 'cos it may be useful

bg2408,

As a user of Cobl and a convert to COBL races from Beautiful People I want to tell you: Thank You.

I love my kitties with hair, so don't listen to the haters. You have done an awesome job with this, first with your own vision and then adapting it for COBL. I look forward to even more COBL races. Don't let one or two people who are vocal outshine those of us that are quiet.

hugs,
dews.

Stab in the dark: my xivali has just joined the db, but upon entering-as soon as ocheeva gives me my gear- Teinava and the rest of the guild members attack me. could it be cobl races?

bump