Thanks for your opinion and the extra info I lacked. I'll accommodate my next version to what you just said about the rarity (and therefore also price and alchemical power) of the metals.

I must have missed the post by Eloise - sorry about that.

I sure didn't see it.

Your solutions sound interesting. In the meantime I will stop using COBL Exhaustion.

I know Kuertee is working on an OBSE patch for MMM to address the NPCs casting spells over and over. Looking forward to news on that.

The repeated healings/spell casting is not really an issue for me, but the ctd with the berserk power has caused me endless headaches and restarts. Glad to know that is over (for now).

Still looking at how we can intergrate the new changes into the FCOM Cobl Plugin. Since FCOM Cobl uses leveledlist for Items and not direct inventory replacement like how the MMM and OOO cobl patch does.

We would have to build more fcomTI *.* master leveledlist in fcom_convergence.esm and update the fcom_cobl plugin with new changes that have been made. aka boar hides, new meats, spriggan changes, etc. In order for the new changes to work correctly with fcom. This is something that I would much rather Dev_Akm decide on. Once he make his return that is. I hope you understand. Otherwise, if dev_akm does not reappear, I will start taking a look over things and see what we would need to do to get FCOM_Cobl up to date has well.


Or and here is that

MMM - Cobl Update for MMM 3.73b3

http://www.4shared.com/file/149656474/a6bb36c9/MMM-Cobl.html

*Requires http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21104 listed under Misc Downloads

*Intergrated all feature from Cobl Tweaks has needed into MMM Version, users do not need Cobl Tweaks anymore with MMM Cobl.
*Fixed all Liches to have correct faction added to them from 3.7b3 Changes
*Fixed Lvl on many creatures that where not set correctly to match MMM lvls
*Load before MMM Knights in load order, so that mmm cobl items get imported correctly and Knights patch work correctly.

Corepc

If Bash doesn't throw a fit, we could simply place the Cobl leveled lists into the FCOM Placeholder leveled lists. We would still need to update where the FCOM lists appear to match the updates, of course. If it's possible to use Cobl LLs inside the FCOM LLs, I'd like to update MMM and OOO to use leveled lists as well - that way, if a MMM update is needed, the list can be placed with MMM rather than require a Cobl update.

By the way, how well will this patch work with older versions of MMM? Not at all, not quite as expected...?

Core ... Haama

Couple of questions.

I'm an FCOM user so should I be using this MMM_Cobl addition at all - or continue to use FCOM_Cobl?
I think I currently have the older MMM_Cobl esp in my load order and FCOM_Cobl loading prior to it and MMM.

This Loot and Merchant Drop Proposal - do you think it would conflict with MALO: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28010 Seems as though it would. MALO changes what your find in containers and so on to be more sensible.

thanks

I wonder does the current version of COBL Glue need cleaning? I've just started cleaning my mods, and the wiki lists COBL Glue under "Do clean these esps." But, I looked at the proposed changes in TES4Edit, and I wasn't convinced, so I left it uncleaned.

Any input?

gothemasticator

I think the MMM patch is safe to use, but will have more of a MMM flavor than a FCOM flavor for liches, wolves, etc.

No more than the patches did already... The proposal is more of a fix - it updates and completes the list of enemies that will have Cobl Tamrelic Ingredient loot and changes what TIs merchants will have (instead of the bulk 30 of each they used to have for TI). Glue uses separate containers to add the TI to merchants, so it doesn't need to be Bashed. The Tweaks, MMM, and OOO patches do make direct changes to creatures and evil NPCs to add the TIs, so if you have another mod that changes creature loot you'll need to Bash it.

There's nothing particularly unclean about Glue - it only makes the changes it's supposed to make...Where are you looking?

I'm looking http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit_Cleaning_Guide#List_of_Mods_Needing_Cleaning. I realize that page is out of date, which is why I didn't proceed blindly. Thanks for your answer. I'll leave Glue alone.

gothemasticator

In order to go the Leveledlist route for MMM-Cobl, FCOM-Cobl, MMMforOOO-Cobl(unreleased) to work.

We would have to pull the fcom placeholder leveledlist from the fcom.esm and place them into the MMM.esm itself. Then redirect all leveledlist has needed. Use FormdId Switch with tes4edit would fix all the references that the leveledlist would point to. Then would we have to replace all the creatures and npc in MMM cobl with the cobl leveledlist instead. We would still need seperate plugin for each versoin of MMM/MMMforOOO/FCOM since there are difference between each version after all (faction, stats, model's, etc)..

OOO-Cobl itself you could do like this. Master leveledlist would be needed to be built into OOO.esm. just like how the fcom.esm is done. So that it could work the same. So once again Dev_akm area for OOO.

All for doing it, just alot of work after all to do this.

I agree would rather have to just update leveledlist than update creature and npc inventory every time a new cobl update was released.




I would not use the New MMM Cobl Patch with Fcom cobl, it will work just fine, but, you will end up with double cobl inventory on all creatures and npc's. and possible other conflicts has well depending on how you place in load order.







We already cleaned the Cobl Glue, if there is anything left to be clean then please point out what it is , so that I can take a look and see if it need to get fixed has needed..

Corepc

[00:25] Background Loader: [Cobl Main.esm] Building reference info.[00:27] Background Loader: [Cobl Glue.esp] Building reference info.[00:27] Background Loader: [..\obmm\BSARedirection.bsa] Loading Resources.[00:27] Background Loader: [Oblivion - Meshes.bsa] Loading Resources.[00:30] Background Loader: [Oblivion - Textures - Compressed.bsa] Loading Resources.[00:32] Background Loader: [Oblivion - Sounds.bsa] Loading Resources.[00:32] Background Loader: [Oblivion - Voices1.bsa] Loading Resources.[00:40] Background Loader: [Oblivion - Voices2.bsa] Loading Resources.[00:52] Background Loader: [Oblivion - Misc.bsa] Loading Resources.[00:52] Background Loader: [F:\Bethesda Softworks\Oblivion\Data\] Setting Resource Path.[00:52] Background Loader: finished[Filtering done]  Processed Records: 1220373 Elapsed Time: 00:20[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 1568 Removed Records: 0 Elapsed Time: 00:00Undeleting: [REFR:00030D9C] (places MiddleClassPewterPlate01 "Pewter Plate" [MISC:0001C626] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICMarketDistrictTheMerchantsInn "The Merchants Inn" [CELL:0002C171])Undeleting: [REFR:0003C912] (places WallSconce01Fake [STAT:0002479D] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:0002BB73] (places MiddleClassPewterknife01 "Pewter Knife" [MISC:0001C620] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:0002EA2B] (places MiddleWinerack06 [STAT:0001CA53] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:0002EA2A] (places Middlewinerack05 [STAT:00010593] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:0002EA28] (places MiddleWinerack06 [STAT:0001CA53] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:0002EA27] (places Middlewinerack05 [STAT:00010593] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:0002EA23] (places Middlewinerack01 [STAT:0001057C] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:0002E9F8] (places interiorlight02r256 [LIGH:00000E2E] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:000664EC] (places Middlewinerack05 [STAT:00010593] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:000664ED] (places Middlewinerack05 [STAT:00010593] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradWestWealdInnCellar "Sinderion's Cellar" [CELL:0002E9A3])Undeleting: [REFR:000235EC] (places MiddleTapestry04 [STAT:000237A2] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ChorrolHouseForSale "Arborwatch" [CELL:00000823])Undeleting: [REFR:0002B71A] (places UpperTapestry01 [STAT:0002374C] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradHouseforSale "Rosethorn Hall" [CELL:00027D51])Undeleting: [REFR:00029FA1] (places UCBench02Fall "Bench" [FURN:0002F1DA] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of SkingradHouseforSale "Rosethorn Hall" [CELL:00027D51])[Undeleting and Disabling References done]  Processed Records: 1568 Undeleted Records: 14 Elapsed Time: 00:00

There you go, for what it's worth-- good job on the Identical to Master records, btw. Is there any possible reason that those 14 records should remain deleted, rather than disabled?

EDIT: I figured that those 14 deleted records couldn't be what gothemasticator was concerned about, so I checked further-- a check for errors comes up with nothing (good), and a check for circular leveled lists comes up with

Circular Leveled List found: SE14GSEscortList [LVLC:00079C90] -> SE14GSEscortList [LVLC:00079C90]

I'm mildly concerned about the circular leveled list, but I'm not going to touch it myself; I will undelete and disable the 14 deleted records and leave it at that. I'd say it's by default clean enough that if you don't clean it (I only do simple cleans like removing identical to master and undeleting deleted records-- if the mod needs more than that, I'm no longer cleaning, but editing) I doubt that you would have a problem (except possibly with the circular leveled list, but for all I know, that will be handled by Bash while patching).

Looks like they were deleted before it was known that caused the CTD on exit. Will disable them for the next release.

That's part of Oblivion.esm; nothing in Cobl (Tweaks, SI, Glue, OOO, or MMM patches) touches that one. By the way, are circular lists all that bad? I can see why this one may be meaningless as it only contains itself, but does it cause any errors? (I was thinking about using circular lists to alter probabilities... of course, there will be more on the list than the list itself so something will evidently be chosen.)

That particular circular leveled list is of no consequence, as it's not used anywhere. The one issue you could find with circular lists in general is overflow - I don't know how much space Oblivion sets aside for expanding a leveled list, or indeed how it does so, but I would imagine that if the leveled list is circular, it could overflow its allotted space and ctd (or not ctd, which would probably be worse). Anybody know what the nesting limit is?

Eloise

Haama are you going to do the cleanup of those records, and just disable that stuff, or would you rather for me to do it. And check against real lights has well. I think I already checked it against ALL Natural Real Lights but will check again to be sure.



Leveledlist nesting limit < - I know there has to be limit to how deep leveledlist can be nested . I know MMM has some that are least 5 or 6 deep. Never tried anything deeper than that. If I remember right, There was a discussion about leveledlist between Martigen, Wrye, Dev_Akm, NewComer24 about how deep leveledlist should be or something like that. That post is long since dead, since it would have been years and years ago when that was talked about.

Corepc

If I want to do a mod similair to COBL (a library mod), but with purpose to be overhaul/extension (ie. libraried magic overhaul with options to turn off/on or set the numbers like in COBL tweaks), and I want make it COBL dependent, could be done that compabilty part of it and also some records would be stored in COBL itself eg. somewhat similair to II (because some core things lay in COBL) and somewhat similair to COBL-races (the mod wouldn't be included as it would have many resources), so all COBL-dependent mods could use it when instaled and able to handle it by COBL when not instaled?

Does anyone else have a bug with the Death Handling function? When I'm knocked out due to fatigue, the character just lays there and does nothing until healed up via potions. Is there a way to disable it?

In Wrye Bash patch...should COBL TNR Races and COBL TNR Races SI be activated or not. These two files are shown as Imported rather than merged....that being the case, should I set the files as inactive (with the dot) or should they be activated to get full benefit?

Definitely deactivated.

TNR mods are all pretty much designed only for faces.

Since this mod is important with a lot of interesting features (unfortunately some peoples are not aware of that) authors should be careful at precising if some plugins should be cleaned. From TCS site we read that Cobl Glue should be cleaned.
Personally I had CTD every time I killed a Guard and tried to take the 4 hames in his inventory; I cleaned the plugin and I have no more CTD.

Also I should mention the following mod http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20684, closely related to Cobl. It's clean and sound very interesting. I just added it to my list of installed mods.

Sorry for the absence, was a bit busy (still am, but hopefully I can have a lot of free time for this weekend).

I don't know anything about Real Lights so have at it

Thanks, I wasn't expecting that. Will have to look into it.

----

Depends on what exactly you're thinking about. Remember, I've done a bit of an overhaul (and planned more) for Alchemy, so it should be able to fit into the Cobl policies.

----

Death handling is only turned on when you use a Death handling mod (such as Wrye Shivering Death). So, which one are you using? and if you want to disable it, just remove the mod.

----

And removing a few deleted references fixed that :huh: or did you do more than that? Also, I'm not sure what item you're referring to, and am really confused because Cobl doesn't touch guards...

about CTD-at-GUARDS
I think cleaning COBL not helped you, but what helped you is the cleaning functions in oblivion.exe which are ran when some part of mods changes (in example if occured a ctd-bug with item spawns and spawns in mod come modified then it's somewhat reset and disabling/changing the mod looks like it helped but only because what oblivion.exe triggers when it "see" something changed, and the same bug can occur later)

I played assassin mod with COBL, II and FCOM installed.
Every time I killed a guard and tried to take 4 hams from the guard inventory to my inventory I got instant CTD and this happened 100% all the times, until I cleaned with TES4Edit the followin mods:

AoshisStealthEntrances.esp
Book Jackets Oblivion.esp
Break Into the Arcane University.esp
Cobl Glue.esp
DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp
DID3_DoubleTrouble.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
ElsweyrAnequina.esp
JQ-AssassinQuest.esp
Mighty Umbra.esp
NakedNord.esp
SM_COBL.esp
SM_ShiveringIsles.esp
thievery.esp
TR_Stirk.esp
Unique Dungeons - Lichs Lair.esp
Unique Dungeons - Lost Glory.esp
VaultsofCyrodiil.esp

Can understand, real life comes first hamma..

I may have already cleaned it for Real Light will check once again.

But, in previous version of Cobl Glue, there where a few light's that where deleted and real lights did not like that..Has it does not like mods that change vanilla lights or their position or even disabling them has well.



My question is that when you cleaned them with tes4edit did you have all your mods enabled. Or did you clean each one by themselves. You should only clean them if you really know what is going on in the mod itself.

Has for guards with Ham that would be Item Interchange adding those, and well it is really picky about load order and its master files that it looks for items from..

sometimes it helps to resort the II esm / esp master list to be more like how your's is.

Disable Item Interchange and see if that helps any? Post your load order

It is?
I don't think I'm doing that... :shrug:
I didn't realise II was so picky about load order either... :shrug:

Vac

It is not II, since we do not have the FormId of Guard we can just guess..Until Aylied People gives us that ..

Only guards I see that are using the ham directly are Jail Guards in Bravil and Bruma Jailer..else it food item spread out through leveledlist..

II is picky for me about it load order, I have to load it super low, but, my load order is much different bosses would be of course..I also rearrange the master file on II to match what mine is. But that is me..

I think it's not II as I don't think I add food items to any guards. Could be wrong. I've got features in II I've completely forgotten about!

As for load order, yes, the load order of the II placement file is picky: it *has* to be after all its masters. I don't think it's too picky about the load order of its masters as it's generally not "patching" the files together, but what problems have you experienced?

Vac