Very nice although now I want to see all those gears and gizmos making that racket

Hello... I have a question about what modders are allowed and not allowed to do regarding COBL. The documentation I've been able to find says, basically, "don't modify the mod" and I was wondering exactly what constitutes modifying the mod. Essentially I am not certain if "modify the mod" refers to taking the COBL resources and modifying them by editing the actual resource file (the COBL esm or COBL esp), or if it means that it would be bad to make a whole new separate esp, COBL dependant, that renames some items added by COBL.

I'm sorry, I'll try to clarify. In my own game I made a personal mod that renames a lot of the foods and drinks in Oblivion. I just wanted the foods to sound more appetizing to my own taste, and also I loved the concept introduced in some of the COBL items of naming foods and wines based on the region in Tamriel from which they originate. Aleswell white bread for instance, Imperial marble cheese, Chorrol double cream. I wanted to take it a step further by renaming a lot of the more arbitrarily named items into location-based names. Lady Blue Lager into Bruma Snow Ale, or Cheap Wine into Imperial Red.

I've only ever used this renaming mod in my own game, I do not make it available because I wasn't sure what sort of permission would be needed or who to ask. Recently I thought I should at least find out if there would be any way I could upload it. Much of the food and drink that I gave a new name to was added by COBL and therefore my mod is COBL dependent, it requires COBL esm to work, I think "parented" is the term. I did not modify COBL esm itself, or any other COBL files and none of the COBL files are included in my mod, which is just an esp file. Anyone who wanted to use it would have to download the most recent COBL separately, of course. But my mod does sort of "modify" COBL because it changes the names of items added by COBL esm. I don't know if that's the same thing and thus is a no-no.

I just wanted to know if I should continue keep my mod to myself and not make it available, or if it would be okay to release.

Your mod is safe and you can release it, in fact maybe I'll even use it. If you're doing it right (changing existing items), it should end up as being mergeable into Bashed Patch.

Just don't change Editor IDs, don't change scripts etc. Anything that would 'break' the use of Cobl in other mods.

It is mergeable, yes. It has a {{BASH:Names}} tag. I haven't actually tried it out in a game that didn't use a bashed patch so I don't know if it would even work without bash. If I do release it, I'll make sure to find that out beforehand.

I do know that the first time I tested it out, I hadn't thought about how bash works and it didn't occur to me. Then I noticed that most of my renames weren't taking effect and a lightbulb went on over my head as to why. I added the bash tag, merged it into my patch, and it's worked brilliantly ever since.

Depends on what you modified. As a general rule of thumb - remember that everything in "Cobl Main.esm" can be used by other modders, and they expect things to remain the same as it is in Cobl Main. Some things can be changed because no one really expects it; that is, if you change the price of a "Raw Balliwog Leg" from 5 to 4, no one will notice and no one placed the leg because it was 5 instead of 4. Names get tricky - if you change "Raw Balliwog Leg" to "Raw Wolf Leg", people are going to start asking me why they're finding wolf legs on balliwogs... and, well, let's just say I would find that annoying, as would any other modder... If you change the name of "Corn Pie" to "M'aiq's Corn Pie" then it won't really change anyone's expectations.

Remember, you can always make a new item using the same icon/model but a different name. You'll need to modify some leveled lists too, but overall this would be the safest way to do it and not step on anyone's toes. (To be clear, I mean require Cobl - there are Cobl resources which can only be used with Cobl, not packaged into your own mod. You won't necessarily parent Cobl if you do this, but players will require Cobl's icon/model resources.)

Well, if it explains any better, the main reason I made the changes I did was for immersion purposes. With that in mind, I didn't change anything that would be startling in game (like finding a wolf leg on a balliwog to use your example). My renames are along the lines of... well, I changed "lettuce" to "green leaf lettuce wedge" and "baked potato" to "salted russet potato" and similar edits. Some of the changes are purely cosmetic in nature such as "tomato" simply becoming "fresh tomato" and graqes are sweet red graqes. Some are more in-depth such as a bread roll becoming a baked meat pastry. In all cases, I did keep in mind what the model for the food looks like. I couldn't change "kwama egg" into "scrambled eggs" because the model for the egg looks like, well, an egg. A round white orb. I'm not good enough to create my own models and in any case I didn't want to put that much effort into it (as this was meant to be purely for my own game, just something for me). I could however change kwama egg into salted hard-boiled egg, as the model wouldn't need to look any different. Along those lines, with the beverages, I made certain that wines were only renamed to wines, and beers\ales the same; that way I avoided the problem that if I had changed "Tamika Vintage 355" to "Dwemer Malt Beer" I'd end up with a beer that showed up in-game as a wine bottle.

I haven't yet decided if I even will release the mod... it would require a bit of testing beforehand and a thorough check with TES4Edit to make sure there are no dirty edits or other accidents, plus documentation in case it's important for anyone to know precisely which names I changed and to what. I suppose I probably will release it at some point, but maybe in a month or two instead of this week. I've never made anything before that I released and I think I would want to put more work into it, such as adding some entirely new foods as you suggested.

No point in this case because he's making a mod who's only purpose is to modify items from Cobl.

Chaos, AFAIK, you don't need to put on any tags. The mod will be merged and tags are for those mods that don't get merged but instead BP only draws tagged stuff (to say simply).

Tried deactivating the COBL OMOD in OBMM and I get a CTD every time I load the game. I reactivated it and disabled the COBL components manually and now it loads fine. I'm not really sure what's going on here. It's not just a save game. I can't even get to the main menu with COBL deactivated.

That sounds like a classic case of missing a master. Did you rebuild your Bashed patch? Have you checked the mod checker in Wrye Bash?

Vac

I don't use Wrye Bash. I didn't think it was necessary with the mods I was using.

Edit: Nevermind. I still had one mod activated that I forgot uses COBL. What's really embarrassing is I made the stupid mod! :sweat:

Then use it and you won't have problems like that any more.

Then use it and you won't have problems like that any more.

Unfortunately even careful use of Wrye Bash *doesn't* prevent double posts, but it does do so many other things. Even with a tiny mod list it's highly recommended.

Vac

Heh, good one! I think it was hanging so I hit F5 or something.

So, I finally got around to checking this out. Pretty neat, though I have a few comments/questions/lamentations.

Why oh why aren't the ingredient sorter racks connected like the Luggage is? I was so excited thinking I had a universal ingredient container in every house I could use to complement the Global Chest Portals I'm using for other items, and also without even needing to use the Luggage for anything. But no, the racks are all independent. I suppose I can use the Luggage to hold my ingredients and sort them when I need to, but I'm wondering if there's some advantage to keeping the ingredient sorters independent from one another that I'm missing, because it seems like kind of a missed opportunity not having them all refer to a universal container.

Just a comment more than anything: When I use Cobl's Race/TNR mods with Comprehensive Style Collection I get googly/missing/etc eyes. I know this can't be fixed since they both edit eyes differently (I tried different configurations for like an hour, looooool). I'm sticking with CSC's eyelashes and whiskers since I really like them and regular TNR works fine with it, and I've got plenty of NPC diversity in addition to those anyway. So I'm going to have to do without Cobl's hair and eye changes even though they'd be nice to have.

Finally, something I'm really curious about--is Item Interchange capable of, say, taking a sword that a mod adds to a single vendor or chest somewhere, and expanding it to [vanilla] leveled lists for dungeons, actors, etc.? I'm sorry but I'm not really clear on what it does exactly. Like is it capable of doing that, which seems like magic, or does it require custom updates for each mod that adds items? Am I misunderstanding what it does? I thought it would be amazing if it could just pluck an item out of any old lazy mod and spread it everywhere, heh.

I apologize if any or all of these questions have been answered, Cobl seems both deep and expansive and I'm trying to wrap my head around it fully.

BONUS DUMB QUESTION: Are there any mods that implements the Ayleid items (http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/22795-1-1294597100.jpg) and weapons provided as resources with Cobl into leveled lists? Maybe Item Interchange does that? I'm aware of the Ayleid loot mod I share a name with, but I think that's only a fraction of what's included here? Am I just a complete idiot? I read through readmes, but sometimes I guess things go over my head.

Vacuity has been pretty vocal about not wanting to address armor, clothes, and weapons with II. Also the version of II included in COBL is not the most recent.

I think there is a stand alone portable COBL ingredient sorter somewhere.

As for the whole race package nothing is more comprehensive than Race Balancing Project. All this COBL stuff is basically RBP watered down.

You also might like to take a look at http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=28010 (MALO) - I use it on all my load orders with this. If Cobl every gets an update it may nudge MALO out though. Though it too does not repopulate weapons. I don't know of any mods that take weapons from some mods and repopulate them in lists - short of the FCOM centric mods, but that is not really the same thing as those mods do that FCOM just gets them to work together.

Ah, okay, thanks for clarifying that, I didn't fully understand what you had said earlier. You're like my mod tutor today or something, haha. I figured populating lists from a random lazy mod was beyond Cobl's capabilities, and beyond the capabilities of any mod for that matter. So does that mean Cobl would be a good way to implement this idea I have for a ridiculously useless clutter overhaul that adds 100000000000000 new pieces of clutter from all the resources people have made to leveled lists and spread around to customize interiors? Actually that's probably better off as a stand-alone thing I'm thinking. Not that I'll ever get around to something so useless and unwanted when I have a few other way better ideas for mods.

MALO looks interesting. I've been trying to track down weapon/armor compilation mods that actually do get added to leveled lists (stuff like John's Leveled List Overhaul, WEPON, Armamentarium) for future inclusion in my game and the equipment/apparel side project for the website, so I had been hoping II would be some kind of catch-all solution, but I think there are enough collections that add to leveled lists to make things quite interesting. It does seem like a waste to have those Ayleid resources included with Cobl when they're not being used by anything, though.

As for the Race Balancing Project, every time I am pointed in its direction and re-evaluate it I'm reminded of its major changes to game balance, which is a big no-no for me, heh. Maybe some time in the future, but for right now I can't really see what aesthetic diversity it adds to the NPCs in the game world that I don't already have--having Django's Unique Features, Tamriel NPCs Revamped, and Comprehensive Style Collection for faces combined with NPC New Clothes, Cyrodiil NPC Remodeling Project, and Classy Clothing Compedium for clothes adds a hell of a lot of diversity to the NPCs, almost to the point where each one is totally unique. But once again maybe I'm overlooking something in RBP.

Thanks again for the clarifications and suggestions.

MALO is great for clutter in loot - adding things like rakes and ladders you can use as weapons. Removing magic swords from barrels in dungeons (who would leave that there). And other such changes. MALO also adds ayleid clutter to lists (in ayleid dungeons), so it does use them.

As I understand it the same greater, lesser, and racial powers that exist in RBP will exist in COBL races too - so if it is balance that is the issue - it is the same. COBL Races is essentially RBP with just the vanilla races and not as much bling. With COBL variant you don't get the other lore based races or the full integration into bg's other mods that RBP offers. Also RBP also has great additions that populate encounter lists with the added races and integration of TNR and better redguards as well as body replacer friendly.

Choice is, of course, yours - but to let you know COBL races resulted from Wrye convincing bg to let him incorporate some core features of RBP. But bg went on to finish RBP and added a lot more to it.

The point about repopulating lists with mod added weapons - just stick with leveled list mods like Armamentarium, JeLLO, and WEPON and the overhauls - most of them populate lists fine. Any mod that adds custom mods to a shop that you then want repopulated into a list would then require those shop based weapons mods to be active (ehh). If you added those three mods into an FCOM game or even a frans game - it would be a long while before you saw all loot.

Heh, I've already got Farmer's Strike Back and I think another couple mods that add clutter weapons without modifying the actual clutter. I've avoided adding any weapons and armor so far but I just couldn't pass up being able to whack someone in the face with a rake or a mug, hehe. Those mods and other goofy [censored] like https://picasaweb.google.com/palidorian/Oblivion15ExtendedStay#slideshow/5571289099647468530 are the only equipment I've added to the game. Besides cataloging equipment/apparel leveled lists overhauls for the website side project I'm kind of planning to do an "epilogue" once I get through most of the vanilla quests where I add in Unique Landscapes and all of the new weapons, equipment, and diverse monsters (so far the only added creatures I have is WAC, though it's pretty substantial). My plan to keep the game interesting for a long time, heh.

It's interesting how you describe the evolution of Cobl with regards to RBP, I didn't realize that's how it came to be. Thing is, after trying to get it to work with CSC, I just disabled Cobl Races entirely along with the Cobl TNR esps. There's a separate esp that modifies the races like you describe but I was never planning to install it. I was mostly attracted to Cobl because of what I thought II might be able to do along with some of its other random features (seriously is there any reason why the alchemy rack shouldn't be a global container!?!?! heh). I'll have to figure out if there are any other mods Cobl covers that will expand the game to my liking, I'm on the fence about MALO for now. As for clutter I'm really just interested in adding more--if you search you'll find that people have made a huge variety of clutter resources that are probably only being utilized in custom location mods. I'd like to be able to take all of those resources and populate the vanilla game world with them, both in leveled lists and to give houses more diverse and fun appearances. Of course like I said it'll probably never happen.

I actually plan to try FCOM eventually, like as a second playthrough, but I don't even want to consider all the typing and tweaking I'm going to be doing when that happens. For now I'm having fun doing that stuff with my 'strict vanilla balance' game, heh.

Because that's the basic implementation that's acceptable to everyone (including all mod-makers) without major complaints. Anyone who wants to have them pointing to a single container needs to implement it themself for their own game. I do agree that it would be nice to offer an option to change that behaviour for at least the ones in the vanilla houses and in the process offer the option for mod-makers to point their sorters at the global container rather than the local container.If you're talking about the Ayleid clutter, that would be ALEX and The Ayleid Steps, if you're talking about the Meteoric Iron Weaponry, The Ayelid Steps does that. Some of the items probably also appear in a variety of Cobl-dependant house mods, but I don't pay much attention to house mods, so I can't offer any specifics.

These are the points I can offer support for, stuff to do with Races I have nothing to do with; I use RBP myself.

Vac

So, today I picked up The Luggage. I plan to use it as my universal alchemy chest, the contents of which I can transfer to the alchemy racks in my houses as necessary when I want to get my alchemizin' on. Going to stick with my customized Global Chest Portal to store all my other stuff (love the glowy Ayleid urn). Two universally accessible containers! Who knew life could be this good?

Anyway, I couldn't help myself while interacting with The Luggage on the Anvil docks for the first time. http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8143/luggage.jpg. Spoilers if you haven't come across The Luggage yet. I just wanted to immortalize it in jpeg form, not trying to give anything away! No clicking unless you've experienced the tour de force of emotion and drama that is The Luggage!

And here I thought I was real creative changing the Global Chest Portal mod so that you receive it as a gift from "Pududun d'Boxx, the Daedric god-prince of storage and containers."

I just realized that Cobl's strongest impact on my playing experience so far has probably been to always make me hungry when I'm rummaging around things that spawn ingredients. http://i53.tinypic.com/20sem2g.jpg

Just started using Cobl after being recommended to me by several people but ive encountered some bugs that are most likely from my own doing.

I installed the latest version of Cobl and Cosmetic Res 01 to add some beauty into my game i have Cobl Races, Cobl Races TNR SI, Cobl Races TNR, and the main Cobl Files active but im still missing meshes for the new eyes, hair, and races.

Also some of my items have random letters that come before the name of the item for instance my Travelers Cuirass from the Alternative Start mod is called C Travelers Cuirass, and my Mana Potions are called M Charging II or something of that nature. Also items that are in stacks of one ask me how many of them i would like to pick up. Im using FCOM and the associated patch as well as Wrye Bash to create a Bashed Patch, just some extra info that i hope helps to diagnose my problem. Im just assuming these bugs are coming from Cobl seeing as how ive used every other mod in my load order and have never encountered these issues but then again i could have messed something up in installation

Did you install the Resources Correctly ?

Are you using any other Race Mod or Cosmetic's Pack

Try using the updated Resource's version that I posted in http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1051762-relz-cobl-races-relz/page__view__findpost__p__16853049 to see if that fixes the problem

Else Post your load order in Cobl Races Thread and I will help you there..

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Item with Randmon Letter in front of them is a option that is set by a Bash Tweak so check your tweak name options to fix that

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Request to anybody who can model?

Else I am need of a Batwing.nif ? Using the batwing texture from MMM..

Could you send me texture separately and details what you need on PM?