Concept 2 seems like a solid idea :thumbsup:

Any magic lovers imagining how combat for them might get changed?

I'm expecting a lot of backpedaling. It has been the saving grace of many, and the bane of myself. Melee was ok, but unless they've completely revamped the combat system ranged combat will forever consist of running around like a jack*** while making a porcupine of your enemy. I can't imagine how frustrating that is for the A.I. Regardless of my complaints the combat system was still fun, and I doubt they could mess it uo so I'll just wait and see.
I do however hope they added limb damage, and maybe even different weak-points for different armours (would give me more of a reason to use bows). Also resistances, such as blunt, piercing, frost, and magic. I could go on and on really.

I expect somethign that will be way too complicated and fancy...so I'll still just stick with bow and backstab :thumbsup:

To me the combat system in oblivion is completely wrong its repetitive and not very well excecuted, i really believe that in combat the view should be only on third person so to handle your character much better and you should be able to make moves like soulcalibur or WoW

I think combat should go to a 2d perspective with health bars, special moves, and tag team attacks.

As in RL, I'd love to have smarter NPCs during combat. Specifically, their ability to climb onto ledges and rocks, jump onto obstacles and such to try to do you in. The thing I disliked in Oblivion is that simply by jumping onto a rock, one was able to outwit virtually any melee NPC or creature. Make the NPCs crawl, jump, and climb the way the player can - that should make us a little edgy and fearful in combat!

I would hope that they change the combat system. Using die rolls instead but this time showing hits and dodges and misses graphically (instead of through sound like in Morrowind).

Or something like Mount and Blade's system with more focus on stats.

Oblivion's way of hitting everything as long as you aim at it was a pretty terrible system. If my orc can't shoot a bow to save his life, he shouldn't be able to hit everything just because I've got good twitch skills. Same concept as the lockpicking mini game basically, which rendered lock picking entirely useless since I could open any lock even if my security skill was only 5.

How do you think they would do dodges if it was a die roll system? I mean hit calculations only happen when you do hit so if it qualified as a miss the dodge animation would have to be very very fast.

Hit/miss/dodge determined as you click to attack with the opponent in your range? Once that's determined you either get a hit or a miss animation.

Um, who needs dodges? :shrug:

Tesfanner was talking about a Morrowind style combat system where if your hit is a miss there's an animation that goes along with that.



To the previous conversation: Yeah but in Morrowind the game didn't determine if you hit or didn't unless you actually hit the enemy, then it would see if it was a hit or miss but by the time you actually saw your weapon hit the enemy the evade animation would probably look awkward unless they implemented some sort of delayed attack animation type deal.

I could see a dodge animation for a catstrophic miss based on the speed of combat in OB. That whole dance routine or stun from a shield/heavy blow would could be the same ammount of time for a dodge animiation.

But, I still think it's not nessecary (yes, I'm the only one who was content with MW's combat

I just had the idea of making a MW character with insanely high agility and a huge blocking stat, but I don't have any copies of the game anymore. :/

I would actually be surprised if the movement system from BRINK didn't make its way into TES V. This would definitely create a place for an acrobatics skill, and would increase the potential for character customization. As for combat, I see no reasons for why these ideas would be implemented (apart maybe from the turn-based inspiration for VATS), but I definitely believe that they are an improvement upon the existing system:

1) give fighters "routines" that can be interrupted by manual attacks. These routines can consist of parrys, lunges, sweeps, blocks, etc depending on what the opponent is doing. By throwing in special moves that can be learned from trainers, these moves could be combined into "combos" depending on the situation at hand. The artificial intelligence of the computer would then only have the simple task of randomizing strategies until an effective counter strategy is found, at which point high-level fighter npc's could have access to the counter strategy for the "combo" that you programmed. This would create an arms-race of sorts that would make the game more engaging I think.

2) Make archery simultaneously more difficult and far deadlier. have arrows with different properties and uses (i.e. broadheads for killing lightly armored combatants in one shot, armor piercing arrows that take up less health for damaging combatants in plate mail).

3) Magic has tremendous potential to be improved. Spells in general could be modified to require more strategy to implement properly; for instance, "Dispel magic" and "Reflect" could be replaced with a more general "Control Magic" effect in which you have a spell that effectively dictates what the repercussions of casting a spell are (either at you, or in an area). For instance, you could have a spell that makes healing spells actually do damage. This then opens up the possibility of having spells which reveal what the "rules" are in an area (if successfully cast: the determining factor of how these spells are successfully cast can still be determined).

Almost all skills could be improved in a similar way, and the benefit of this system is that it does not overwhelm players at the beginning: new abilities that increase the complexity of the game are learned as the game progresses. At lower levels, the effect of the system would be indistinguishable from being pwned by a level 100 monster.

As long as it's not too twitch.

I don't want to be able to easily take down a lv 20 minotaur with a lv 5 character because I'm good at God of War.

Your stats > your gaming skillz if TESV is to still be an RPG

I believe you should be able to take down a high level enemy if you as a player are just that badass. So Player Skill > Character Skill

I would like to see a combat system which depends on whats your skill and whats your class is.

So to example you are an assassin, you should get an extra bonus on sneak attacks but being very weak in close and direct combat.
What would be cool is a dynamic wind system, so if you are an archer your arrows will be effected by that. And if you've got a low skill your arrows will be more effected than if you have higher skills.

I really hope that you should be able to make your enemies fall to the ground, like knocking them out. However, it should look realistic...

And when they fall to the ground, you should be able to strike your weapon deep into them, kind of like how Deadly Reflex made it. The damage should be high for doing that. Either so high that they die insantly, or almost die, depending on if they wear really heavy armor or not, and if the enemy is some kind of boss or not (bosses should be much harder to kill of course, or much harder to knock out).


Also, one thing I really hope they DON'T MAKE... is a slow-motion thing. I really don't like the slow-motion in for instance Deadly Reflex. Please don't add any slow-motion Bethesda! It destroys the real-time combat!

The problem is that then the game ceases to be an RPG. Being "just that badass" is easy, especially if you've ever player a twitch action game. You can't expect Bethesda to provide deeper, more challenging hack-and-slash combat than a game like Ninja Gaiden. It's not going to happen.

The result is that character growth - the very heart of an RPG - feels pointless, as any level 1 character can take down the nastiest creatures in the game simply by knowing how to pull off a combo or two. Player skill is important, but stats have to be king. Leveling up needs to feel like an accomplishment....and the world needs to feel dangerous to a low-level character.

Yes character stats and skills are very important but I still think that a combat system which rewards the player being skillful is important. Being good at the game is not easy, not if the game is properly designed to include difficulty in the gameplay and not fake difficulty in giving enemies over inflated stats; It's much easier to simply level up a character, get lots of equipment/items, or create a powerful spell than to master a combat system.

After much leveling up and maxing key skills, I want deadly abilities that incorporate stylized moves and finishing blows. I don't want a VATS by any means, but a little camera work and some bullet time, with some blood spray sprinkled in would be great.

As a stealthy character I would want to eventually be able to sneak up from behind and actually slit a throat and get an insta-kill. Each class should have there respective perks of course. :toughninja:

That really depends on the combat system. 99% of the time, the opposite is true. It usually takes a lot more time to level up your character than to master the ins and outs of a combat system.

For us gamers who are good at action games, we'll master the combat system very quickly (usually takes me about an hour), and then any sense of progress - of getting stronger - goes away.

This also assumes a deep combat system, and let's be realistic, that's not going to happen. Combat will be improved from Oblivion, but if you're expecting a Ninja Gaiden learning curve, I just think that's totally unreaslistic.

***Again, I don't want to make it sound like player skill is unimportant. It *IS* important. It's just that stats should be king, with player skill coming second.

That would be fantastic.

Well yeah I enjoy both Action games and purely RPG games which victory all depends on strategy and stats so I wouldn't mind either, but I'd like for even higher level enemies to be taken down without too much of a grind. Mastering a combat system, level up and improving a character are all rewarding. I'm still for player skill over character skill even in an rpg though.

You know, I'm an MMO guy. So what I really missed in TES were performable skills with your weapon. Basically you could just use one kind of attack (although you might get different animations). The skill perks in Oblivion went into the right direction, but the execution was extremely lacking.

If they add that, I just need 1000x better/dynamic animations and I'm a happy guy.