I'm outlining a novel right now. Without going into too much rant-like detail, it's going to be about slaves (several races, I think) that are led by a non-slave as they fight for their freedom.

My question is how should I go about writing a story involving a magical world that combines weaponry such as flintlock, matchlock and wheellock rifles/pistols?

Does my story then turn into more of a steampunk story than a fantasy? I continuously find myself drifting more and more away from a high-fantasy magical world to a world with guns such as this, and trains as well. And really, with the coming of guns, trains, etc... does this technology in a way destroy the use of magic, making it somewhat unnecessary? Does it defeat the purpose and make it obsolete? I think about this all the time.

What do you all think?

Technology vs magic is a conflict. A nice conflict, one that is rarely touched upon, and thus a good one. The more conflict a story has, the better. How do mages (wizards, witches, whoever dabbles in that in your world) cope with everyday people being able to do what only they could do before? How do they work against that or with it? There are lots of options to explore. Don't worry too much about what genre others might put your book in. ^_^

I've always held the belief that if anything, magic would make technology obsolete. I wouldn't worry too much about what genre it transforms into. Build the world you want and let it be what it is.

Really depends on the type of magic. If its powerful magic that anyone can do with relative ease, technology probably doesn't post much of a threat. If its more limited magic (both/either in power or in the number of people who wield it) then technology could be a serious rival. Either way, there would probably be special technology to ward against magic and special magic to ward against technology. I would do research into the rise of firearms in Europe and how that lead to the decline of medieval traditional warfare, or on how the introduction of different materials and weapons (steel, the chariot, etc.) impacted ancient societies. Consider why/how this technology developed - was it meant to complement magic? Was it meant to replace it?

I agree with RedViv that it provides the setup for an excellent set of conflicts. Theres the obvious magic vs. technology, which can lead to faith and the mysterious against technology and the mastery of nature. It can also be used to create class tensions - whereas only trained mages* (the upper class) can use magic, everyone (the lower classes) can use technology. Since they are slaves, you might want to take a look at how technology is changing the nature of slavery (likely replacing manual labor and creating the need for more trained slaves to work the machines).

And yea, don't worry to much about genre.

*may I suggest Magus (pl. Magi) as alternatives to mage/sorcerer/magician? Wonderful and underused words.

It inevitably comes down to which can muster the most amount of force: is a rifle more powerful than a fireball? If we're talking magic that can move entire mountains, it may be more difficult to justify the leap towards technology. However, I would surmise that most magic comes at a price, and there aren't unlimited supplies of "mana" (whether it involves blood sacrifice, spiritual chi, or whatnot.) I would thus imagine that armies would adopt a hybrid of both practices, barring any ideological objections: magicians for support roles, and riflemen for cannon fodder (imagine the American civil war, but with elves. ) The fact that technology is starting to develop would suggest that magic isn't a cure-all for the needs of society, and the power struggle that emerges could be between the magic-savvy aristocracy and the newly-equipped plebians - you could potentially set this just before or during the industrial revolution, drawing parallels to when steam power superceded the need for manual labor and drove thousands of skilled laborers out of work. Maybe the magicians are feeling the pinch, that their world is shrinking in the face of cheaper industrial power, or perhaps the grim face of industrialism is driving more to seek the old traditions of happier, simpler times, leading to a crackdown by the pro-industrialists as their powerbase comes under threat. There's a lot of different directions you could take it.

And of course there are stories where magic and technology found their place with one another: Improving the gun with magic, casting the magic with a machine...

Hmm... Magic in my world has never been something just anyone could wield. Or, rather, the more advanced spells takes a little more... well... advancement. That's how I've always wanted it to be, because I don't want to fall into the trap where everyone possesses magic and it's just a big sorcery-fest. Minor magic (such as, perhaps locking/unlocking doors, lighting lamps with non-lethal fire) takes less skill, so more people could use that sort of magic. However, magic that takes more skill (moving mountains, shooting out fireballs and rods of lightening) takes far greater skill and, during the time my story takes place, is quite unheard of.

The problem I have is that this technological revolution has already come and passed at the time of the story. Wizards and sorcerers (or magi ) no longer have the major role they have, because such destructive magic wasn't even outwardly used to begin with. My world isn't like TES or Erikson's Malazan series where destructive magic is so easily used. It's more subtle. Like I said... deceptive kind of magic more than anything, things that have practical use to everyday situations such as light source, heat source, locking/unlocking, etc.

I simply want to write the story where the technological revolution has already taken place. For the reader I don't want them to think "Okay, there's a conflict of magic vs. technology going on, I want to see what happens." It's more like I want them to think, "Okay, there is a new era and obviously magic's use was nearly wiped out during a technological revolution long ago." See what I mean? I want the era to appear that it's already happened and there is little to no conflict, rather than the process actually taking place during the story.

Thanks for all the help. Talking about writing is fun.

Sounds like Arcanum.

How does the unlock magic work? Does it physically move the components of the lock? Is it ranged at all?
If you can move the components of a lock with magic, you could probably counter a gun with that same spell as well. If the same spell isn't depending on the size of the object, it should be able to disable a train as well.

Just something to think about.

Magic isn't real.

I'm not exactly 100% sure how the magic works just yet, but you raise a very good point. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

True. In Mass Effect, biotics are rare individuals (compared to the whole population) and even then their abilities supposedly tax a lot on their stamina. This isn't reflected in the game's battle dynamics (you'd think the more you use biotic attacks in a given period of time, the longer the cooldown would become in reflection of the strain it puts on you), but the game's codex indicates that biotics need to ingest special "protein shakes" right after combat to replenish a lot of nutrients and energy their abilities sap from their bodies in a short time.

Technology empowers anyone. Magic, at least powerful magic, can only be wielded by a few. Even a magic shield has a limit of resistance and duration. Body armor will protect against only so much before it fails. A flamethrower is just as effective as a fireball spell. Etc.

The way I see it, the easiest way to have magic and technology exist in the same world but remain seperate entities (Though it doesn't have to be that way, you could also potentially combine the two so that you have devices that have components of both, in other words, a machine powered by magic, or you can have a world where magic has evolved to the point of doing everything modern technology can do, but if you also have some idea of what your world is like, than that's another matter.) is to have magic be more powerful than technology in the hands of someone who can use its full potential, or be able to do things that can't be done with technology, but at the same time, have it as something not everyone can use. This can be done by either having magic require special talents not everyone is born with, or be something anyone could technically use, but only with years of schooling in highly esoteric knowledge, which only a reletively small amount of people, while machines can be used by any idiot with only basic instructions of how to operate them, this way, there are advantages to both, technology is something anyone can use, thus it can become part of the every day lives of common people, while magic is only available to a small part of the population, but since it can do things technology can't, or do things better than technology can, those who can use it have reason to do so. Those who can use magic won't want to abandon its benefits, but for those who can't, the presence of magic does not remove the need to develop technology, and that's the only sort of reason I could see for the notion that the presence of magic would prevent technological development from happening... well, I guess you could also say that mages intentionally surprise the development of technology to prevent development that might give common people who can't use magic power comparable to their own, but that only works if magic users have a strong influence over society, and obviously, this can't be done if technology has already become common place in the setting.

Batman isn't real either. It's still more enjoyable to see the Dark Knight bleed, try his best and still suffer, than him going through millions of wads of minions and punching them without any effort.

Thank you for that. That helps a lot.

In my book magic is only found in the far east. There it is so totally entrenched in the culture they use it for everything from framing, medicine, exploration and whatever you can think of. Elsewhere in less gifted and enlightened areas of the world it isn't used as much, but technology can be almost as feared as the magic itself. Considering these I've only got a small fringe cult of people thought to be insane to devote their time to the craft of inventions. With only one or two mage's among all of them to see if there is any benefit at all to combining technology and magic. Not to mention the magic in my books while on an every day level is powerful the more complex it is the harder it is to work it. Complex spells can go horribly awry, one of the northern cities experienced this as it was blown away in a terrific blast of power while the academy there was working on experiments of some kind. Though I'm sure there are other things you can think of to justify it.

Just throwing some ideas around to get your brain working.

Have you read The Golden Compass?
I think it did fairly well.

It wasn't magic, it was steampunk technology / science fiction.

And about the the mix of Magic and technology, a good concept in your story would be that in the city (or country) where the main plot happens magic and science are at odds with one another. There could for example be a powerful school of magic and a major university right next to one another, competing to convince the brightest pupils to study in their halls and become wizards / scientists. It could lead to some interesting situations.

:gun: bliviongate:

There were witches.
Am I missing something?

Maybe you can draw inspiration from the Fable series? (Yes, I like Fable...)

Sounds a bit like Fable, or Final Fantasy 6, or Arcanum.

Read up a bit on them, you might get some good ideas that lead into better ones, good luck with the book.

Thanks, guys. Not a fan of Fable of Final Fantasy, but it's definitely work looking into the background and whatnot.

And thank you, Mr. Sivartus, for the good luck.

"Any technology sufficiently advanced will be considered magic by the masses." quoted by someone I think...

How magical is your majic?

It's your book, do what you want, and g'luck (actually I ought to be wishing you stubbornness and determination, but that never goes over well :hehe: )

:)

How magical is it? I don't even know, outside of it isn't very important. At least not anymore, though it was never too important to begin with.

And thanks!

play a game called Arcanum of Steamworks and Magicka obscura

it addresses that exact issue quite well. Helps to explain the conflict between magic and their uses and the growing reliance on technology