bad

1: guns

- in tes lore the dwemer got eradicated for being technologicaly advanced, by this i mean they had some steam powered contraptions and made some magic powered robots (atronach's in some form). it may be that the dwemer where eradicated for trying to build a god but everyone else does not want to risk having their entire race completely destroyed because they did something the dwemer did
- there is fallout
- cant you be satisfied by the proposal of crossbows? even if we dont have crossbows- we have magic right?
-nobody wants a call of duty rip of, no sprinting around dungeons and quickscoping skeletons!
- muskets are rather impracticle compared to magic and the use of magic on mellee weaponry
- were would you get ammo

- getting rid of fast travel

most players hate having to walk everwhere they want to go, it is VERY anoying having to walk for over 5 minuits from the wilderness to some obscure location to a city and then to another obscure location
you may want to explore things and walk everwere, but fast travel is optional, dont ruin it for others.


completely hand crafted dungeons/completely hand made terrain

- would mean much less content
- the opposite would also be bad,completely randomized stuff would mean many dungeons would be very repetitve and the lighting and creature placement would be terrible, the most sensible idea would be to generate a generic dungeon's interior unpopulated and then populate it . it would also be sensible to play test every dungeon to improve on them slightly.


obvious


leveling

leveling is 90% likeley to be somewhere between fallout and morrowind. the chance of completely going back to morrowind is 9%, and the chance of being the exact same as oblivion is one percent (in which case the entire staff at bethesda need to see a shrink)
there is no point ranting on about it if it will be improved.

combat will be improved, how so we do not know, only that dark messiah guys are involved (not saying the combat will be a clone though) the combat will most likely not be a clone of oblivion, and there will be riots if it goes back to morrowind combat (riots i say :liplick: ) stop complaining that combat was crap, and give some little details about how it can be improved slightly

AND FOR THE LOVE OF TES!!
STOP THINKING NOTHING CAN BE IMPLEMENTED AT THIS POINT!!!! the game has most of a year left to develop, it could even be delayed. a few months is enough for a large team like Bethesda to completely change something, stop being so pessimistic .



please continue my list of things that shouldent be suggested/complained about

Until the option to disable Fast Travel in the game settings is added, and legitimate directions given to quest objectives, Fast Travel is crammed down all players' throats and is not optional.

Please add the option to disable it, which finally will make it optional, and stop ruining the game for other others.

Please do the same with the Magical GPS Quest Arrow, which is also currently not optional.

:meh:

How exactly did you obtain the numbers in "most players hate having to walk"?

No offense, but do you lack self control? You don't have to Fast Travel to a location, you are free to walk/run all the way there, which you have to do to even get the fast travel icon in the first place. The same as your free to talk to a merchant to get their goods, rather than say whipping out a broadsword and chopping their head off or even sneaking in a night and stealing everything. I like the way Fast Travel is implemented, so that you can use the map icons to get there, or simply run, the event will wait for you to get there.



Made up. If you see 90% in anything as a figure or 99% then it's made up in 90% of cases

if players didnt like fast travel, then why did bethesda continue o use it in fallout 3 and obsidian STILL using it for fallout nv. not to mention nv was more of a complexified game

I don't care if fast travel stays as long as the npcs give directions like in Morrowind. I loved how Morrowind handled this thing, while Oblivion gave no reliable alternative to fast travel or compass.

To appease the newer players, as most are coming off of games like CoD and are more accustomed to everything being fast, easy, and having instant gratification. They don't have time (or rather want to make the time) to explore areas and walk from city to city like most hardcoe RPG players.

As for my opinion on fast travel, I really don't care either way. Sometimes I use it and sometimes I don't.

As for my opinion on your list.

- Guns are a given (in the sense that they ARE NOT and NEVER WILL BE in any Elder Scrolls games).
- You already know my opinion on fast travel.
- In all honesty, I'd prefer less/totally unique content to more/cut & paste content. But I really believe that a balance between the two would be ideal.
- I don't care about leveling as long as it's the same system used in almost every Elder Scrolls game, no skills are removed or merged, and it isn't broken beyond belief (which none of the leveling systems have been so far).
- While it's true that things can still be implemented, it's very rare that something is put in this late in development. The last year is more for adding the finishing touches (whether that's tweaking or cutting features), bug testing, and then release. I imagine if something was to be added in this late, depending on the complexity of the feature, it would be implemented in a very poor way compared to the original suggestion.

The RP'ers of the forums don’t mind if fast travel is left in, its optional after all, we just want alternative travel options. Boats, Nordic versions of silt striders, teleportation, and anything else that will allow us to travel while not breaking RP.

The reason I hate fast travel, and I think most other people do too is because it removed so much. I don’t want to fast travel all over the place, it makes the world feel smaller, but I don’t want to keep having to walk across the map. By simply making you have to walk to a boat and then appearing next to another boat gives you a tangible explanation of how you travelled, making the world feel bigger.

Having fast travel and only fast travel forced me to use it, which pulled me from my immersion every time I used it, or walk long distanced which got boring.



Also this, for those of us who choose to ignore quest markers and fast travel for short distances. It again gives a tangible realness to the world, something that helps immersion.

The DM guys are working on the combat?? That is amazingly terrific, terrifically amazing!

Fast travle IS optional in Oblivion. When you start a new quest it doesn't teleport you or pop up with a message saying "FAST TRAVEL NOW!". I don't fast travel, I could if I wanted to but I don't.

I do agree about making the quest marker optional, it's helpful but sometimes I just want it to go away and stop taunting me.

But you don’t have any other option but fast travel or walking. You can’t jump on a silt strider or a boat. You can’t go to the mages guild and get teleported.
Fast Travel replaced the alternatives. I want the alternatives back.

I just role-played it in Oblivion. I only fast traveled if: I had a horse, I mastered Mysticism, mastered Athleticism, was a vampire, or gained access to the Arcane University and RPed a "Mage taxi" service.

Aaah, now I see. Alternative travel would be better, If they brought back 'mark and recall' then it would make a lot of people happy as well.

because they couldnt be bothered coming up with somthing better. they just wanted to follow a format that worked well (in sales figgures) so they could start pumping the game. and i am 90% sure that is correct.
also, morrowind method of fast travel was so much better. more balanced, made SOO much more sense

Oh, sorry for the mis-understanding there. Some nice underground transportation system would be good or even a caravan pulled by were-bears... lol

I fail to see how adding he option to disable fast travel would make it any more optional than it is when you have the option not to do use it. Unless you're saying that because YOU can't keep yourself from using it when you don't want to, in which case, maybe you should consider that just because you have no self control does not mean other players don't. And what does directions even have to do with fast travel? That doesn't even make any sense, and if it's for some less than obvious reason, you have to explain it, or no one will understand the point you're trying to make.

And if you feel that you're being "forced" to use fast travel, then it's probably because there's no alternative, it's either use the map to fast travel to a location, or walk. What I'd suggest is using both a system similar to Morrowind and a system similar to Oblivion's, this way, there are options to suit player's preferences, and there should be some sort of advantage for using travel services, because otherwise, with such a setup, there would be absolutely no real point to using them. I'd say map based fast travel should have a chance of causing your travel to be interrupted by enemies, for one, which is really something that should already have been in Oblivion to begin with. After all, if we're meant to assume that fast travel is you traveling on foot, just that the journey is skipped, and not you just teleporting somewhere, then it would make sense that if you can be attacked during normal travel, then you can also be attacked along the way when using fast travel. You can never hope to please every gamer in existence, but sometimes, options can help you to please more than you can without them. I'm not sure if having an alternative would appease every player that complains about Oblivion's method of fast travel, but I think it would help to reduce some of the complaints on the matter.

Now I do agree that the compass should be optional, and to achieve this, proper directions for quests is necessary. Because for some quests in Oblivion, there's really nothing pointing you to where you're supposed to go except an arrow, if you were able to disable that, you'd just be left with no way to find your quest target at all, and even Morrowind, despite all the complaints about not being able to find the puzzle box, still told you where you should go, it's just that following those directions wasn't always easy.

But when most players say they don't want fast travel, I recon what they REALLY mean is that they don't want OBLIVION'S fast travel, because to have a game world even as large as Morrowind's or Oblivion's and not include any means of travel faster than just walking would be idiotic, but Oblivion's means of fast travel is not necessarily the only option available. Some might have preferred Morrowind's approach instead, in other words, you can't fast travel from just anywhere in the game, but most towns have travel services which are instantanious in real time but, like Oblivion's fast travel, may cause a certain amount of time to pass in game, and these have a price based on the distance traveled. I still don't agree with those who feel that way, but when you're going to argue with others, I figure it's wise to get a basic understanding of what they're trying to suggest.

As far as the other things go, I'd say that yes, guns are a bad idea for the Elder Scrolls, and I think it can be safely assumed that Bethesda will not add them. And the issue of level scaling is indeed probably obvious at this time, though there's still room to discuss what sort of system would be best. Bethesda may no that Oblivion's method was not an ideal approach, but they might not be sure what the ideal approach is.



The last statement is slightly true, yes, but I can't agree about the former to. Whenever I get a quest that requires me to go to Pelagiad in Morrowind, I find myself missing Oblivion's fast travel system. I do NOT find it more fun to travel the same road I've already traveled ten times to get to a place I've been to 20 times just because Bethesda never bothered to put a silt strider there, and when I DO feel like traveling somewhere in real time, believe me, I don't use fast travel. not just in Oblivion, but in Morrowind too. But I suppose not using a feature you don't want to use is incredably difficult for some players. It really makes me wonder if even if there were alternatives, said players would not still insist that they're "forced" to use map based fast travel.



I'd think it would be pretty obvious, considering how many alternatives to walking we've created.

But I think the real question we should ask now is how did we go from "Why common suggestions are bad ideas." to "Let's complain about fast travel! thread# 12000"? It appears that this forum is very skilled at going off topic, or in this case, taking one aspect of the original topic and focusing only on it and ignoring everything else.

last time i decided to boot up in morrowind- i was in the temple canton for vivec. i had to walk all the way to the closest canol boat (that was slow due to the player being slow in morrowind) load the next boat, load on the next boat, load on the final boat, walk all the way to a stilt strider, arive in balmora, walk to my house to drop of some stuff, walk to the mages guild (again-slowly) and then engage in a quest, of which i had to go on another long jurney of which fast travel would have made shorter work of

of course- i was bored of morrowind by the time i got the quest (and i dont have a short attention span) and i quit to play another game. this was all after the main quest by the way. if morrowind had oblivions fast travel system i could have cut the crap and gotten straight to the action

Everyone has started discussing Fast Travel because we all agree on everything else, so far.



I think that a mix of the two would be good. Allow people like you to use the Oblivion style fast travel system, but give me and the RP'ers the Morrowind style fast travel system as well. That way I have the option to ignore the Oblivion style one, and you can use the Oblivion style one and sometimes the Morrowind style one if you feel like it. :celebration:

What you describe here as a terrible chore is often a pleasure for rp'ers. I can assume people who need fast buttons to "cut the crap" "straight to action" found Morrowind quite slow and boring. What Bethesda did was switching from a slow motion hardcoe rpg to a fast-paced action game with instant rewards and little to no downtime for "crap" management. Some of us think they went too far with simplification and accessibility.

On the topic of fast travel I liked the silt striders in Morrowind because they were convenient but they didn't feel as lazy as fast traveling. Plus fast travel lowers incentive to program awesome scenery.

i think they simplified oblivion way too much, i completed morrowinds main quest. fast travel and combat were the only things i thought were improved from morrowind (ignoring graphics)

^This^

I wanted to make a list like this for a long time, but I do not know why I did not start it. Thanks for doing it.

But as for fast travel, I'm one of those who are completely comfortable if it goes all the back to Morrowind's style. But would not mind Oblivion's Fast travel method, as long as they provide in-game facilities to help role players fast travel, like traveling agencies and the like.

And I would not mind compass markers, as long as it's optional and the quest developers give adequate addresses for quest targets through out the quest lines.

As you seemed to have realized the "forced" to use map based travel tends to stem from the lack of an alternative besides running clear across the continent.

Imagine a Skyrim four times as big as Oblivion (no that won't happen, would be nice though) with quests that send you back and forth across the breadth of the map. The only means of fast travel is map based fast travel, that is clicking a box and arriving at the front door.

Is it really then optional? Yeah, you still can ignore the map and run clear across the continent back and forth, but it's quite evident that the deisgners didn't intend for you to be running straight from city to city for half of the time you spend playing the game.

If the alternative is enough of a burden then the choice in question (fast travel) is not really optional. This is essentially the same basis as "constructive discharge."

In constructive discharge an employee is essentially forced to quit due to intolerable conditions, it is considered for legal purposes the same as firing the employee.

Likewise in the game if the employee is faced with an intolerable condition of running an absurd distance it is essentially forcing the player to embrace the alternative (fast travel) as the only alternative is to slog through an altogether unenjoyable...slog across the continent.

Fast travel and the magic compass aren't really optional. There is no reason to walk between places (at least not in Oblivion) because there is nothing interesting going on. I find it quite humourous that the people who are so much into 'immersion' that magical teleportation (fast travel) is not immersion breaking for them. How about a simple transport system like in Morrowind which actually makes sense in game? It's much more adequate.

As for the GPS, NO directions were given in Oblivion. You were given a quest without any directions, and you had to look at the map to know where you had to go. I hated that.

It's got nothing to do with "If you don't want it, don't use it". Implementing fast travel has effects on other aspects of gameplay. Consider the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Silent_Pilgrimage from Morrowind. That quest simply does not work in a game that has fast travel. If they build Skyrim with fast-travel then any quests like that would not exist, regardless of how the player actually plays the game.