Do you think that there are any communist/socialist groups out there in the wasteland?

There were to be communist insurgents in Van Burens toturial, do you think they would have survived and been cannon?

Well, there's the Chinese Remnants at Mama Dolce's... and Mr. Cheng(?) at Tenpenny certainly seems all gung-ho about Communism...

Communism is a Lie! - Optimus Liberty Prime

"The goal of socialism is communism" - Vladimir Lenin

On topic. I hope we don't come across a commie Faction in future Fallouts. At least not one based on a pre-war faction.

"Are you ready to die for your country, you commie son of a [censored]?"
"You had better run you commie loving bastard!"
God I love Mister Gutsys!

I'd think it would be intresting, but only if they weren't demonised.
And of course they don't need to be a pre-war faction.

Also, I don't care for the chinese remenants and such, I want communist that have no china ties.

This.
I wouldn't like them to be demonised, as a socialist myself.
I wouldn't like them to be based of chinese remnants or something pre-war either.

Could be fun. Take a NCR dominant area where you've got a people's front of judea style communist party holding meetings that they think are secret and doing things that they think are subversive (in reality the local police know all about it and just laugh at them, in secret of course) until one of Ceasar's Frumentarii who's taken in by all of their talk starts using the group....

NCRes eunt domu NCRii ite Domum

-goes and grabs This Machine- I certianly hope not haha :happy:

There would have to be industry to even start a commie faction. There are not enough job titles in the fo world we know to even go commie.

DR.
scientist
shop keeper (mostly of used goods)
soilder
farmer

Well I guess you could get a commie faction out of that.

If a faction had enough power from the start over the people, being commie might actually be the fastest way to jumpstart a section of population into legitimacy. That is of coarse if the people went for the idea of your corn is everyone s corn and you will get paid X sum for growing it, we the governing body will take it and have it distributed for what we say. (which will no doubt be a lot more that they gave you).

It would all depend on the peoples belief in the " for the greater good" part instead of "all for me" like they have been doing.

It would be ironic........
If a guy can read about Rome and put a halfassed Romanized faction into fo then I guess there is no reason there could not be. It would make way more scene to me than cl.

San Fransico, and the Shi nuff said

For socialism to start, there needs to be both a level of industry that can support a bunch of people on it's own, as well as a semi-oppressive top-down governmental/corporate system, with a very clear line between haves and have-nots, with the haves generally treating the have-nots like dirt. That's the reason that Marx created socialism after seeing what Capitalism was like, after all...

From our understanding of Fallout, we're not seeing the haves and have-nots mingle together as a unified whole- Tenpenny Tower, BoS, Vault City, Enclave... these guys pretty much hate whoever isn't them, and as a result, refuse to let anyone else into their club (for the most part) except under extraordinary circumstances. They're more akin to highly-developed seperate nations (and are treated as such in New Vegas, at least from the standpoint of the NCR and the Legion.) Socialism can't start in a condition like that because there's not the link of "I do (most of) the work for these guys, and I only get a tiny bit of food and water out of it"

In order for a Socialism movement to make sense in the Fallout world, there needs to be a local government that treats everyone but the higher-ups badly (weather or not it's justified isn't important.) Otherwise, you're going to have to explain how a home-grown socialist movement managed to pop up when (presumably) most books on the subject in the US calls it evil, especially outside of San Fran (who have the Shi to offer a dissenting viewpoint.)

... And I just realized The Pitt DLC might be a veiled reference to the Capitalism/Socialism argument, in the guise of a slave rebellion...

Man, Vault City is the place for this!


How ever, the thing I accualy mean is stage 3(perhaps 2-3 transision) communism. (Stage one being revolution, stage 2 being getting rid of opposision, stage 3 being the utopian part)
Reason would be that the player should have a choice to just let them be or "kill them for thire sins" (The slaughter of opposison and the deaths in the revolution)

The Followers of the Apocalypse are socialists.

A stage 3 won't fit in the Fallout world, because A: It's never happened in the REAL world (it tends to fall apart during Stage 2, with the people in charge becoming Ego-manical,) and B: It's just not very fallout-y. Now, if Stage 3 for fallout was "Utopia, but only as seen from the outside" then I'd be able to see it.

Main lesson of the Fallout world is that humanity will always fight and wage war amongst themselves. "War. War never changes." They can dress themselves up, act as "civilized" as they want, but at heart they're all bastards who will end up killing each other just so they can get ahead. Any utopia is an anthema to the Fallout world- either it will be destroyed by outside forces (such as Vault 13 by the Enclave) or it's not a true utopia, with clear corruption elements behind the white-picket fences (Vault 112.)

Well I would like that too, but if they lived, and if they left NCR land, people here are saying they don t want them connected to the Chinese. They had to have been commie. I have never seen them, but only read about them. Commie would be what they know about governing.

Where do you get this idea? They will give themselves up for the greater good with no one making them do it. Commies take what the people do and pay most of them squat. The followers sacrifice themselves for the people, Commie workes sacrifice themselves for the Chinese department of defense.

Take for instance Duracell batteries
American makes a minimum of $60- 80 per day making them.
Chinamen get $40 per week.

The difference goes to the Chinese defence department to build there new stealth fighters they unveiled like 5 months ago. Duracell makes more too. This is where all the jobs went.

Followers and like the opposite of Commies.

Sigh...
First, he said Socialism, not Communism. Please separate them. Communism as it has emerged in practice every single time is a really bad thing and not at all what it was meant to be. And it's even further away from socialism, which is what we have in my country (or had, we have a right wing government now, but I think they'd be considered much further left that your democrats anyways, hehe) and my country has worked very fine.

Second, socialism is an economic doctrine that aims to create a classless society, where means of production are controlled or owned by public power and is based on people and their needs. In a broader sense, socialism is a political ideology with broad confidence in the collective and if necessary, the state's ability as a problem solver with a focus on the greatest possible equality between individuals and social groups, classes, genders, different sixualities and ethnic groups.
Third, don't you think the Followers treat everyone as their own equals, no matter if they are ghouls or human, poor or rich, homosixual or hetrosixual. Don't you think they're kind of like a collective where everyone help, a non-profit help organisation, a "homeless shelter" for unfortunate people? Sure, they don't have their own production, but they buy what they need and they distribute what they need with no unnecessary high costs like if they would've been capitalists. They even do free things like when you do that quest to help those addicts, you gotta put out some of your own money to get them some Fixer.
Fourth, I do think they are somewhat socialist in how they work. They act as a homeless shelter organisation and a collective, two things that socialism like.
Fifth, I don't want to get into a political flame war. I favor socialism. I see good things in other ideologies, though. And I don't overexaggerate how "bad" those ideologies are either, that I don't favor.
Sixth, have a wonderful night all! <3

I think the followers are pretty much a selfless group who s goal is to help any and all comers. Where all the money and supplies come from IDK. I do know that no government or ideas on how to run a population are non-prohibit. If they do not make money they will collapse, or be 8 trillion dollars in debt.

I don t really think you can compair the followers to anything in our world. We have homeless shelters here. China might have homeless shelters lol IDK. Just because FotA are non profit, and do not discriminate does not make them more or less like and economic movement/governing idea in our world.

They are really good anarchists is what I think. If they had to lead a population, and keep order though their ways would change, or things would quickly get out of control. They are good like they are working inside a larger body (NCR) , but not actually being NCR.

The Followers of the Apocalypse do ask for money or something in return like labour. They don't do things totally for free.

That's like how a collective works aswell. Everyone contribute. Kind of like when we played FOnline 2238, we had a collective at our base. Whatever people looted, scavenged or manufactured, we put in a pile for everyone in the group to use. But to use it, we had to cooperate and add things to the pile. And for things like that to work, people need to be much less greedy, at least when it comes to the collective... which is why I think communism will never work, because of the people. Sure, some might "follow the rules", but some might not want to contribute, or they want to take more than everyone else. It's the stupid greed. Nothing we can do about human nature. That is why socialism has to put rules for people to follow to be manage the equality. No, not like communism where everyone are equal (in the bad way) but some are more equal than others (the greedy bastards that always manage to be the top).

So, your from sweden too? =P

Yes, indeed I am.

Even if we ignore the fact you've confused scoialism with Communism, you've confused theory with practice.

Just to boil down what other posters have said, the Followers are a "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" kinda group - in a nutshell, socialist. (Yes I know this is a gross oversimplification).

Just a quick refrence point in case people try to argue the point again;

Capitalism- What the US has. You want something, you gotta work for it, nobody will give it to you. If you're poor, its your own damn fault, and very few people will help you. If you're rich, you've got a lot of power at your disposal, in the form of lawyers, lobbyists, etc.

Socialism- Everyone contributes, and in return, you are given what you need (and then some when there's a surplus.) If you're poor, the government will do it's best to get you back on your feet, find a new job, etc. If you're rich, you've taken "too much" and need to contribute more, or risk becoming a outcast.

Communism- A dictatorial excuse for the government to simply take control of everything, and give the people *just* enough to cover basic needs. If you're poor, you're given just enough to live. If you're rich, you're offered to join/"donate" to the ruling party... or be "convicted" as a [insert name of convient enemy faction here.]

What you fail to realise is that is Capitalism. An American Capitalist company has said "Hey China you have 1 billion people that need jobs. Will make jobs for those people but we'll pay em jack [censored] and you can take a cut off the top. "

China says " we have no choice, there are 1 billion people that need jobs and its hard to get 1 billion people jobs, we have to do what Nike, Duracell, Addidas and all other companies say or our people will be out of jobs."

Yah thats the real story not they are "EVILLLLLL COMMUNISTSSSSS WHO TAKESSS ALL THE MOONNNUESS."



You do understand that it is the nature of the government to be in debt and help the people. I can never understand Americans, they want lower taxes, but they want increasesd healthcare, daycare, free legal services and top notch police. How do you think the gov can afford that if the tax rate is 0%?




No that is not socialism. The government does nto give me what I need I go to the store and buy it with money I made from my job working for a multinational corporation. Rich peole are not considered to have taken to much. Socialist/ Left Wing countries can and many do have Capitalist systems where you buy and support your self, but the tax rates are higher there are more social services etc..

What you just described as Socialism is far from the truth.