uhm, haven't heard the thing about immortal npc's myself, so i can't say for sure how it was meant,

but just for a little something that might clear things up:

in fo- and tes games, there's not TWO states (normal killable npc / immortal "essential" npc), but there's a THIRD state, that's "protected", meaning this npc can't be killed by anyone BUT THE PLAYER.

most required npc's already were "protected" in skyrim, nv etc, and i'm pretty certain that's what it'll actually be, simply because totally unkillable wouldn't make any sense, immersionwise...

So let me get this straight, is it only COMPANIONS who can not die? or can NPC's not die as well? cause that Sh*T pissed me off to no end in Skyrim when my go to blacksmith would end up getting killed off by something so stupid, because i was too lazy to load outside of the village or walk there. and even in Fallout 3 i had a guy end up getting killed (might of been a glitch) that was related to a quest and he was going to meet me somewhere.

I like the fact that companions can't die, i never had them in NV cause i didn't know companions didn't die, i just kept my dog in Fallout 3 in my house for fear of him dying.

Omgosh, I laughed too hard at those! Two of my favorite companions and I have never heard those lines. Of course I never purposely tried to blow them up either.

They could die in Fallout 3, yes. They also leveled with you so could get very hard to kill.

As for the Fallout 4 companions... Well I could have used this in Mariposa. I swear I spent 10 years of my life trying to get through there AND keep Dogmeat alive (turns out Dogmeat died there even though he eventually walked out of there with me).

Wow, that really explains your thoughts. Thanks.

Mods can't do everything, obviously. Bethesda's got much better resources at their disposal to make quest content and consistent assets and gameplay, and mods have a harder time adding new features and mechanics without it feeling cramped or extraneous to the gameplay, or finding weird/heavily scripted ways to implement them. And Bethesda can't ship a crappy game and tell the modding community to make it good; I've learned that a game has to be good in the first place to develop a modding community. Mods can't fix a bad storyline, for instance.

But little things like essential NPCs are totally okay to leave with mods. Bethesda can design the gameplay and experience they feel is best, and let the community decide for itself what options it wants to have. Now, essential NPCs are one thing; I wouldn't say the same thing about modding in realistic needs, item degradation, or new skills. (No, for those I'd suggest a system that doesn't need a toggle option; if some players feel like it's just busywork and it can't be avoided like base-building or having companions, then it's harder to justify its inclusion in the first place)

I just assaulted Mariposa with Ian, Katja and 3 Paladins. One of the paladins didn't load into the interior of Mariposa but the other two did. Katja got side-tracked and went after 2 Robobrains while the rest of us was fighting super mutants in the sleeping quarters and she got blown away because of her low level. Later on Ian accidentally got blown up by a rocket. One of the paladins ran out of stimpaks and ran through a forcefield, frying him in the process. And the final guy got splattered with holes from a minigun.

I didn't reload though.

*Some leveled, I believe. I only remember Deathclaws were annoying in FO3 because they couldn't exactly kill you once you got Power Armor, but could totally kill companions. Fawkes and Dogmeat got stupid levels of HP, I think others like Clover and Butch never gained HP.

That's part of why I'm worried about this:

What do you mean mods can't do everything? If you take your time to make mods and script them so there are no bugs you can make mods do almost anything. Especially if you have a very flexible and robust Software Development Kit (SDK).

The PC version of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind has a mod that adds a AK-47 that shoots fire balls, a PC gamer who is a modder made a mod for the PC version of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion which adds crossbows and crossbow bolts back with their own animations, a PC gamer who is a modder made a mod for the PC version of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim that adds Dwarven flamethrowers, with their own fire effects and animations, another PC gamer mad a mod that lets you drive a Dwarven train on train tracks, another PC gamer who is a modder made a mod that gives Dwarven bows a reticle an sight that you can aim with, a PC gamer who is a modder made a mod for the PC version of Fallout: New Vegas that lets you build your own houses and settlements like in Fallout 4. So many mods I can name that make so many features possible for the PC versions of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. The PC version of Fallout 4 will be the same.

How about make it an option like it was in New Vegas? Can anyone give me a reason why this shouldn't be an option for people playing in hardcoe mode? Remember that many people like to roleplay, and I've had companions die simply for story reasons.

There are places in both FONV and FO3 where you can use terrain exploits against the big nasties. Places you can go and pretty much be immune. These are generally steep hillsides but there are some other types. One of my favorites is near Quarry Junction in FONV. From this point you can rile up seven deathclaws and they just can't get at you. If you have your companions set to melee, they will go down there after the deathclaws and they will have their "special" lines almost on a loop. lol

Not many games allow your companions to die. In Skyrim they did. Well some of them. But you could also resurrect them on the spot (same with ME). I don't have a problem with this. But what I would like is if the companion is close to death it falls out of combat. Then it's all up to you.

And dogs are like kids.. they should never, ever die.

Star Paladin Cross was a weak one too.

{Edit}

Speaking of Fawkes. In the demo where the protagonist is fighting a bunch of super mutants inside a building, I could swear that I saw a super mutant shooting at the other super mutants. If that is what I really saw and not a misinterpretation, then we either have more than one faction of super mutants or Fawkes has a cousin.

I didn't like how companions only got knocked out in NV.
So, I gotta say, again. Just fire them and don't pick them up again on that play through. Next best thing.

It's a video game not real life it shouldn't matter if the dog NPC's or other NPC's die and there should be consequences.

I can.

Because a study conducted on fanboyism discovered that people will be die-hard for series, franchises, companies and products that they like because their opinions become an extension of their ego. Basically, if a game you had high hopes for takes a dive or does bad, you take it personal and it bruises your ego. You see it as a personal failure because you interpreted the footage shown as being good, and because it turned out poor, instead of taking it as "oh well I was wrong," many people take it as a personal blow to their ego and rationalize it as proof that their opinion svcks, that they're unintelligent and have poor taste. The result is that people will make die-hard arguments in favor of a product because they're subconciously rationalizing an attack on that product as an attack on themselves, their opinions and their intelligence. That's why you'll see people making excuses for something that any rational human being can see would be better if it provided the player with options. This is also why hero worship is a thing with popstars and other idols.

Yes this is a real study. I can dig it up for you guys if you want.

Or play on hardcoe and watch them die.

You're right. I should have been more clear: Mods can't do everything that the official developer can't do themselves in a much more reasonable time-frame, with much higher production quality, and much fewer engine limitations. There are tons of things modders won't be able to do for Morrowind - until OpenMW is finally a suitable replacement for Morrowind's own engine, then all bets are off. And then there are some things that just require a lot of advanced knowledge, like animations or complex scripting.

And modding in this topic is pertinent specifically to consoles, and the options consoles have access to for mods. Setting essential status on NPCs, or giving ammo weight, or implementing realistic needs, is one thing - anything that demands hardware from the future (hello, Morrowind and Oblivion Graphics Extenders) is out. Presumably, the same would apply for things like the Morrowind Code Patch or the script extenders, and definitely things like OpenMW that just blow the lid off of the modding potential.

Are y'all really surprised with this??? Did anyone here play skyrim??? I mean, they "streamlined" skyrim and it sold a bazillion copies....the lesson Beth learned was "cut stuff out in the name of "streamlining" and advertise the heck outta it and it'll sell well". This is just the beginning, more "streamlining" to be unveiled soon....

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't reload on companion death. :c I like FONV's method - essential on normal, mortal on hardcoe - and I like Skyrim's method, 'player-kill only'. But if I'm in the line of fire and my companions bite it, I loot them.

I just... loot them.

Can you please provide a health warning the next time you link something like that.

Yep. Streamlining and good marketing and advertising don't have to go hand-in-hand though. I think most of us who "expected" this much have hung around to see if FO4 would follow in the footsteps of New Vegas or Skyrim, and now it's clear it's following Skyrim. I think those of us who agree with you and what you're saying are only still around out of curiousity to see what the game will look like all the way up to release, then we'll probably split.

We're aware. This is just more evidence.

I am one of the 'reloaders' when playing on hardcoe mode. I usually park my companions at Sloan while I take on the beasties at Quarry Junction. I do remember taking Veronica with me once and she was unconscious a lot.

I wonder if the immortal companions will be in hardcoe mode in FO4? If they have hardcoe mode?

I'm with you....I was hoping against hope that FO wouldn't be "skyrimized" but I'm not surprised it is....it's all about profit anymore

Too true. Just using it anecdotally as a way to get around this issue in case there's no way for them to die in F4.