Complaint to my fellow modders about your works on Nexus : Fallout 3

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:51 am

I am posting this in the GECK forum for several reasons:

1. My son was helping me look for mods that might be fun to play and ALMOST saw something he shouldnt have. Thankfully his head was turned at the time. Because of this, my son is not allowed near the computer while I interact with the modding community anymore. Pretty sad considering that this is a GAME, and that even though I feel he is mature enough to handle heads popping off, bodies exploding, and rivers of blood without becoming 'damaged', I can't let him browse a modding site.

2. All but 4 of the persons this is directed at have been sighted posting or lurking this forum in the past four months.

3. Most of us in this forum are advlts or extremely bright youths with a sense of propriety that has (generally) been bolstered by our contact with the general public as 'mod makers' and the kind of abuse the public likes to heap on us for every percieved flaw (grin).

4. I believe by addressing this as a GECK issue directly, since the material involved is being created and used in the GECK, I can IMPLANT the discretionary thought in your minds.

Ok, flame suit....check. Here I go.

Dear fellow modders, team leaders and members. I am not a prude. Far from it. I am a virile, 40 year old, red blooded US Army veteran who regularly swears like a sailor, likes his whiskey neat, his cigars cuban, and his women...well...lets just say I like women...alot.

However; With all the above said, I must come forward and submit that the scruples being displayed on the Fallout 3 Nexus as of late, in regards to mature subject matter: Vis a vis: swearing and advlt content are sorely lacking.

I agree that it SHOULD be, to an extent, the purview of Buddha and the other site admins to police their own files, but lets face it...the Nexus is humongous now, and growing exponentially.

So, in a nutshell you might be wondering...whats my problem?

advlt themes and depictions of all types being displayed ON THE REPRESENTATIVE PICTURE FOR MODS.

*NOT* the picture *GALLERY*...no...the *PICTURE THAT APPEARS UNDER THE TITLE WHILE YOU ARE BROWSING MODS*.

Please understand that the 'age controls' on the Nexus are slim to NONE and there is, from what I've seen, no 'vetting' of accounts done whatsoever.

This means that not only am *I* seeing all this content But CHILDREN are seeing this.

Yes, I understand, I am not YOUR mother, or THEIR father, but that doesn't make it 'none of my business'. It is the responsibility of every advlt (even if only by virtue of age) to NOT CONTRIBUTE to the deliquency of minors. In fact, the last time I checked, it was a law in every state in the American Union, and in most civilized countries around the world.

Please, take to heart the knowledge that the picture you choose as your PRIMARY PICTURE from your gallery is displayed along with your mods name and 'vital statistics' in the browsing and search screens, and that if you drop advlt content in there...everyone will see it even before they open up your picture gallery.

In closing, please excuse the repeated use of the term 'advlt content', but the rules of the Bethesda forums prohibit me from using the terms that should be used, so I must simply say 'advlt content' and allow you all to imagine some of the sheer depravity (and humor, and beauty) involved.

Again, in a nutshell, before posting a picture and declaring it to be your main picture (which gets stamped onto your mods short form display), bear in mind that 8 and 10 year olds WILL (not might...WILL) see it.

Please consider the above, and take to heart that I am not TELLING you what to post or not post. By all means, post all the advlt content pictures you want...IN YOUR PHOTO GALLERY...but please...not as the primary picture. Please?

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:46 am

Go into Member preferences and block advlt content? :shrug:

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:23 pm

I am posting this in the GECK forum for several reasons:

1. My son was helping me look for mods that might be fun to play and ALMOST saw something he shouldnt have.(well FO3 is a mature only game anyway) Thankfully his head was turned at the time. Because of this, my son is not allowed near the computer while I interact with the modding community anymore. Pretty sad considering that this is a GAME, and that even though I feel he is mature enough to handle heads popping off, bodies exploding, and rivers of blood without becoming 'damaged', I can't let him browse a modding site.( you are ok with your child seeing the violence but not something else. Be real the game does include death,blood , violence, six, drugs)

2. All but 4 of the persons this is directed at have been sighted posting or lurking this forum in the past four months.(this is very vague)

3. Most of us in this forum are advlts or extremely bright youths with a sense of propriety that has (generally) been bolstered by our contact with the general public as 'mod makers' and the kind of abuse the public likes to heap on us for every percieved flaw (grin).

4. I believe by addressing this as a GECK issue directly, since the material involved is being created and used in the GECK, I can IMPLANT the discretionary thought in your minds.(WHAT?)

Ok, flame suit....check. Here I go.

Dear fellow modders, team leaders and members. I am not a prude. Far from it. I am a virile, 40 year old, red blooded US Army veteran who regularly swears like a sailor, likes his whiskey neat, his cigars cuban, and his women...well...lets just say I like women...alot.(god bless you)

However; With all the above said, I must come forward and submit that the scruples being displayed on the Fallout 3 Nexus as of late, in regards to mature subject matter: Vis a vis: swearing and advlt content are sorely lacking.(swearing is everywhere man in public, on the internet, and in Fallout which you love to play....and with your thoughts and words shouldn't let your son watch any of it.)

I agree that it SHOULD be, to an extent, the purview of Buddha and the other site admins to police their own files, but lets face it...the Nexus is humongous now, and growing exponentially.

So, in a nutshell you might be wondering...whats my problem?

advlt themes and depictions of all types being displayed ON THE REPRESENTATIVE PICTURE FOR MODS.(but the game is mature content, so that means the mods maybe as well)

*NOT* the picture *GALLERY*...no...the *PICTURE THAT APPEARS UNDER THE TITLE WHILE YOU ARE BROWSING MODS*.(look for mods w/o your kids in the room)

Please understand that the 'age controls' on the Nexus are slim to NONE and there is, from what I've seen, no 'vetting' of accounts done whatsoever.

This means that not only am *I* seeing all this content But CHILDREN are seeing this.(children can see WAY more than this today online man wake up there's many free porm sites)

Yes, I understand, I am not YOUR mother, or THEIR father, but that doesn't make it 'none of my business'. It is the responsibility of every advlt (even if only by virtue of age) to NOT CONTRIBUTE to the deliquency of minors. In fact, the last time I checked, it was a law in every state in the American Union, and in most civilized countries around the world.

Please, take to heart the knowledge that the picture you choose as your PRIMARY PICTURE from your gallery is displayed along with your mods name and 'vital statistics' in the browsing and search screens, and that if you drop advlt content in there...everyone will see it even before they open up your picture gallery.

In closing, please excuse the repeated use of the term 'advlt content', but the rules of the Bethesda forums prohibit me from using the terms that should be used, so I must simply say 'advlt content' and allow you all to imagine some of the sheer depravity (and humor, and beauty) involved.

Again, in a nutshell, before posting a picture and declaring it to be your main picture (which gets stamped onto your mods short form display), bear in mind that 8 and 10 year olds WILL (not might...WILL) see it.

Please consider the above, and take to heart that I am not TELLING you what to post or not post. By all means, post all the advlt content pictures you want...IN YOUR PHOTO GALLERY...but please...not as the primary picture. Please?

I have added my comments in with the quote. But I will say how could any parent be ok with letting there kids see massive violence but not see nudity or heer cursing

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:02 am

I have added my comments in with the quote. But I will say how could any parent be ok with letting there kids see massive violence but not see nudity or heer cursing

I'll take a stab, violence and swearing less embarrassing?

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:41 am

yeah, there is a preference in the option to block all the advlt content.

or

you could try log off everytime you are done with Nexus.

that way, the picture below the mod title will not be showing on.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:38 am

Regardless of your parenting choices (that, no matter how much we could disagree with, we have no say on the matter). All those mods that have 'nudity' should have the 'advlt' tag. If they don't, it's just a matter of suggesting the tag and waiting for the uploader to accept it.
As far as i know, you should be able to block "advlt content" from showing up through your options. If said filter doesn't work, i believe it would be more productive to point it out to the site moderators (so they can fix it) than to the modders.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:13 pm

Depends on the age of the kid. Still and all, I'm *NOT* Ok with my son seeing 'massive violence'.

The first two mods I created or downloaded were a gore remover (no blood, no dismemberment), and I went through and changed numerous text lines in the dialogues. and disassociated the sound files attached to them as well. while I could by no means remove EVERY curse word, I did manage to remove dozens of them, including a number of the combat triggered ones.

So when my kid shoots something, theres no more violence than in his favorite movie (Indiana Jones), cartoon, or video game (LEGO star wars).

I think Bethesda made a cop-out choice to go with such rampant violence.

In dozens of end to end play throughs (I mod, so I have to playtest...alot), not to mention oodles of marathon hours of short plays, with my three top mods loaded, I can count on my fingers and toes the number of truly vile swears I've heard now, and each one is on my list to nuke.

Im actually thinking of releasing it, but its very harsh, dirty editing that I did when I was first starting, so It tends to be crashy sometimes.

Furthermore, regardless of what may or may NOT appear in the game itself, or what a child may or may not be exposed to in the environment of such a game, you are missing the larger picture.

The true upshot of this post is about CLASS. Its also about LEGALITY. As a parent, I have the right to decide what my child is or isnt exposed to, and in what quantity. YOU, as some random person on a file hosting site...do not.

The law, furthermore, does not specify when my child can be exposed to 'violence'. Thats a call I have to make, and one I addressed already above (the anti gore mods). Again, there is more violence in his Indiana Jones movie, than in Fallout 3 when he plays it with what I have installed.

Furthermore he is allowed ONE hour per day to play on the computer. Some days he chooses THIS game, some days he chooses something else, other days he forgoes the computer entirely. Hes a smart kid

Anyway, think of many of our favorite 'violent games'...Team fortress (1 and 2), Counterstrike, etc. How much uncalled for gore do you see? Very little. A little blood, maybe a head pops off in a cartoonish manner.

No, As much as I love Fallout 3, and I DO adore this game, there is no way in HELL I would let my kid play it the way it came from the box. I had to modify the daylights out of it first.

Again, if you want to make something nvde or otherwise advlt, ThATS FINE. Just dont stick the damned pics in my face all over the file archives. The Nexus is a mod download site, NOT a porm shop.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:44 am

Again.. you should be able to block said files from showing through config.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:09 am

Im in the process of working on an advlt mod (pr0n mod to some) and i agree with you Elanthil01...

The intro pic should be nudity free, in fact a lot of well known 3d modeling site stores and gallerys have the no nudity on intro pics rule.....

You should make your suggestion to the admin of the nexus site (or post it in their forums) !!!!

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:29 am

forgot to state:

Yes I know about the advlt tag, the problem is, a lot of people either dont know about it, are too lazy to set it, or are just out to put that garbage in your face deliberately. Many of them may even think doing so is somehow 'funny'.

Well, it aint.

As of this post, several authors have mailed or messaged me and thanked me for pointing this out and at least one has already changed his 'presentation picture' to something very acceptable, which still shows off the salient points of anatomy...but hidden by a very small costume. In a world where my son can check out a Boris Vajello art book at school...I consider that MORE than satisfactory.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:41 pm

I don't know about you, but the back of my box says "Rated M" and "Ages 17+" and "sixual Content." The game itself isn't intended for children, and the mod's and mod'ing sites don't have to be, either.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:44 am

Thanks Cheese

Im planning to write to Buddha, since hes the admin I know the best, I'm just trying to frame in my mind a shorter letter than the stream of thought dribble I've posted here.

I guess basically my 'points' from a debate team standpoint would be:

1. If its a nvde mod, is it truly necessary to SHOW me the nudity on the short description, or better to warn me its a nvde mod, and save the gross anatomy for the pics I have to DELIBERATELY click on?

2. Is it legal, moral, both, neither to not require age validation on their site if they want to run it like a porm shop?

3. Does the average parent other than me CARE what their kids are seeing?

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:17 am

I don't know about you, but the back of my box says "Rated M" and "Ages 17+" and "sixual Content." The game itself isn't intended for children, and the mod's and mod'ing sites don't have to be, either.

Thats rated MATURE. Not 'raging hormonal teenager'.

Furthermore...show me the 'sixual content'? That bimbo at Moriarty's? pleeease. I've heard worse from sunday school teachers.

Furthermore, how many of you have figured out the fact that my kid in question is 16 and is actively helping me mod?

According to the things several of you are saying, I should be taking my kid to [censored]houses, bars, and dog fights, apparently because they are somehow 'more acceptable' than the sight of a bullet hitting a body, which then falls down (no blood, no exploding bodyparts) in a modded game.

Again, the damned point is, MAKE WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT...but dont put the WORST of it IN MY BLOODY FACE in thirty foot tall pictures that my OTHER CHILD, the 8 year old, might NOTICE from across the bloody room.

Because:

Its not your bloody call what does or doesnt go on the Nexus. Its theirs. They TOLD you to use the advlt tag, they TOLD you not to portray salacious nudity.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:58 pm

Your welcome,

On a legal point i think nexus can get away with whatever is posted without the need to have disclaimers as they are not technically responsible for what others post..... Its kinda like youtube, people can post anything they want even if it breaches the porm and copyright rules. All that happens when someone complains about it is that the offending material gets removed !

And i would say that most parents dont really care about their kids.... anything that keeps them quiet or out the way is usually good for most parents !!!

» Sat May 28, 2011 3:47 am

Point 2 needs rephrasing, as it is it is a bit too offensive. Not to mention there is already an age validation.

IMHO, slapping an advlt tag to a mod should be easier and less conflicting than changing the image (from a moderator's point of view). Getting the current system to work as intended would be the best, worse case scenario, you report the 'file' that contains nudity but isn't tagged as advlt so a moderator can do it.

That, and not all parents (mostly outside the USA) care much about nudity (for very good reasons).

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:43 am

Point 2 needs rephrasing, as it is it is a bit too offensive. Not to mention there is already an age validation.

IMHO, slapping an advlt tag to a mod should be easier and less conflicting than changing the image (from a moderator's point of view). Getting the current system to work as intended would be the best, worse case scenario, you report the 'file' that contains nudity but isn't tagged as advlt so a moderator can do it.

That, and not all parents (mostly outside the USA) care much about nudity (for very good reasons).

I agree, Blank.

Basically all Im trying to get across is this...

there is tasteful nudity...and yes, even tasteful pormography.

And then there is....not..tasteful.

Tasteful is a Boris painting.

Tasteful is a playboy spread.

NOT tasteful is what you find inside of stores whose front windows are required by law to be painted or papered over to above eye level...

Do we REALLY need the 'not tasteful' on the Nexus?

And...if its a mod about size 40 E cleavage...do you really need to SHOW me just how big that is in a picture? Why not let me imagine it, download it, and make my own decision? Look, when you get to be my age, naked bodies pretty much are all the same, and they are boring, if not actually something to laugh at or cringe at, depending on how screwed up said body is.

Basically the only reason someone has to post full frontals on the nexus, is to give teenagers something to invoke their hormones and prompt them to activities that are...in parental circles...frowned on.

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:03 am

I am posting this in the GECK forum for several reasons:

Perhaps you made the post before you realized that the nexus accounts all have a setting to disable viewing anything from advlt-type mods? Or, did you have the setting turned on and an advlt image still got through?

If you didn't know, I can understand where it would have pissed you off. I have seen the STRANGEST sorts of mods... I can't even begin to talk about them here. But I still feel it's important to not make policies that limit strange, yet non-dangerous content. So, I support their basic being-hosted situation. But functional advlt controls are of course a must. If you didn't know, your kid coulda seen something a LOT stranger than a set of boobies, whew...

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:27 pm

Perhaps you made the post before you realized that the nexus accounts all have a setting to disable viewing anything from advlt-type mods? Or, did you have the setting turned on and an advlt image still got through?

If you didn't know, I can understand where it would have pissed you off. I have seen the STRANGEST sorts of mods... I can't even begin to talk about them here. But I still feel it's important to not make policies that limit strange, yet non-dangerous content. So, I support their basic being-hosted situation. But functional advlt controls are of course a must. If you didn't know, your kid coulda seen something a LOT stranger than a set of boobies, whew...

The advlt type controls are turned on and set properly. The problem is there are oodles of things getting through. I have since just turned them OFF again and resolved not to go NEAR the nexus while my kids are here.

Again though, read my last post. Its really a matter of tastefulness versus salaciousness.

And if you want to know about bizarre...ask me about a little lady in a bar in South Korea who (cough) ....nevermind.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:53 pm

Tasteful is a playboy spread.

I disagree on that part. Neeways.

Perhaps the ability to "block image thumbnails of mods labeled as advlt"?. It *shouldnt* be hard to implement, it would block unwanted nudity without having you to go to several menus to disable the filter to watch if that is your wish, and any mod that haves nudity without the advlt flag could be simply tagged so the uploader can fix it, or reported so a moderator can do it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:00 am

The advlt type controls are turned on and set properly. The problem is there are oodles of things getting through.

They need to fix that. This is a site management issue.

And if you want to know about bizarre...ask me about a little lady in a bar in South Korea who (cough) ....nevermind.

The one that weirded me out was the one where the male raiders are um. like.

If I ever saw THAT in my fallout game I would probably drop my weapon in shock. heh. Then I'd let my followers deal with it as I ran away. I wouldn't want one of those svckers sneaking up behind me, let them try that [censored] on Fawkes or Malcolm or some [censored], but not meeeeee.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:48 pm

Basically the only reason someone has to post full frontals on the nexus, is to give teenagers something to invoke their hormones and prompt them to activities that are...in parental circles...frowned on.

So you believe that people only post the pictures in order to give teenagers a reason to touch themselves? theres google for that. I can understand your problem with it, (you don't need your 8 year old seeing stuff your not ready to talk too them about yet) but in the end its really just one of those things your going to have to deal with. Anyway, I must say that "in parental circles... frowned on" isn't true for all parents. Why, one night, I was having trouble sleeping, so my mom told me to go pleasure myself. ('course I thought she was talking about drinking beer at first, so she had to clarify what she meant)

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:54 am

How come us dads can explain to our 10 year old's about the flying punch that sent an opponents body bone crushingly against a wall with no problems but as soon as we see a naked body we become all coy and embarrassed?

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:17 am

How come us dads can explain to our 10 year old's about the flying punch that sent an opponents body bone crushingly against a wall with no problems but as soon as we see a naked body we become all coy and embarrassed?

Blame society.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:37 am

How come us dads can explain to our 10 year old's about the flying punch that sent an opponents body bone crushingly against a wall with no problems but as soon as we see a naked body we become all coy and embarrassed?

In so many words: Societal issues. And how kids are raised translates quite strongly to how they interact with their children, etc, etc.

I'm not going to tell anyone how they should parent their kids. I'll need a Ph.D before I start giving out any advice. And this isn't community discussion, so I'll leave my own opinions at the door. However, if the OP is worried about his young child viewing or listening to explicit material, there are many more issues in this wide world than the FO3 Nexus that need censoring. Like Google. Or YouTube. Or Wikipedia.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:51 am

I would just start tagging mods that need tags. :shrug: I tag them when I remember to as I browse, but for me it's just to make searching mods easier. If everyone tagged their mods properly we wouldn't have half as many "Where can I find ___ mod?" threads.

I'm not touching anything about parenting. But I do think you and all of us should tag mods that need tagging, whether it be for advlt content, or anything at all (tag armor mods as male, female, or both for example... that is a big one to me, since so many mods are only one or the other!)