Let me double check them, I might have made a mistake somewhere playing around with the perks.

Edit:

Random guy with 124 Damage resist. Wearing armor and boots so should also have +60 invisible resist.

441
355.83 = (85.17) Mace
347.41 = (93.59) Mace with perk
361.15 = (79.85) Axe
343.15 = (97.85) Axe with perk
366.48 = (74.52) Sword
360.26 = (80.74) Sword 1/3 crit
358.71 = (82.29) Sword 2/3 crit
357.16 = (83.84) Sword 3/3 crit

All the numbers are a bit higher, I'm thinking he had a shield on him. It was a mage I was fighting.

So crit damage does improve. It just started at a much smaller number than expected to begin with.

1/3: +8.3333%, 100% of 1/3 crit damage bonus, 66.67% (2/3) of 3/3 crit damage bonus.
2/3: +10.4166%, 125% of 1/3 crit damage bonus, 83.33% (5/6) of 3/3 crit damage bonus.
3/3: +12.5%, 150% of 1/3 crit damage bonus, 100% of 3/3 crit damage bonus.

Edit to add "bonus" for clarity.

Here's a mammoth with 0 damage resist for a baseline

931
835 = (96) Mace
835 = (96) Mace with perk
841 = (90) Axe
829 = (102) Axe 1/3
827 = (104) Axe 2/3
823 = (108) Axe 3/3
847 = (84) Sword
840 = (91) Sword 1/3
838.25 = (92.75) Sword 2/3
836.50 = (94.5) Sword 3/3

Edit: forgot to put the damage in. They fit with Vilurum's numbers above.

Edit2: Added more axe numbers

So the big things we're learning are:

• Mace Bone Breaker is Multiplicative
  
• Sword Bladesman is 20% chance to crit for 112.5% damage

Time to rerun some numbers. Will edit with results.

A note of confusion. Your shown numbers are Mace = 48, Axe = 45, Sword = 42... but you're doing double damage. Where is this coming from? I had assumed the Armsman perk increased the shown damage. My own numbers earlier in this thread confirm. Are you dual wielding? It might explain the weird crit numbers... if one hand is critting, but the other is not? I dunno.. thinking out loud.

Got a question for everyone:

I'm trying to find the Fiery Soul Trap effect on a weapon so I can learn it. I don't want to disenchant the "Steel Battleaxe of Fiery Souls" that I got in Ironbind Barrow because http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Steel_Battleaxe_of_Fiery_Souls#Steel_Battleaxe_of_Fiery_Souls, and I'm going for as perfect of a file as possible. Luckily, Fiery Soul Trap effect http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Fiery_Soul_Trap. Although it is said to be rare, I don't mind refreshing a NPC for an hour IRL if I know the NPC has a non-0% chance of spawning it.

My question is, does anybody remember seeing Fiery Soul Trap on a vendor, and if so, if they could share the name of the NPC.


(On a sidenote, my other last remaining enchant to learn is Resist Poison. UESP says there are http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Resist_Poison in the game that have the effect, which is "Necklace of Poison Resistance" and "Necklace of Poison Immunity." If anybody remembers seeing any vendors selling these, or pickpocket targets, that would be great too. I've refreshed Radiant Raiment for like 3 hours and got everything else in the game, but Resist Poison has never showed up.)

I feel loved <3

It would seem it actually does

Yes

Never seen it myself, I consoled in one of every enchant for my files

Pickpocket items are somewhat random from my testing, spawned when the character is first created (i.e. you enter their cell). When I was trying to get a specific item I would stand outside one of the yarls castles, save, go inside and check everyones pockets, reload and repeat.

Single handed standing power attack. I always use them for my testing, I'll try some normal attacks on a mammoth and see if the numbers come out different.

Edit;

931
889 (42)
882 (49) 16.666%
880.25 (50.75) 20.8333%
878.50 (52.5) 25%

Power attacks do double damage but the crit damage is only calculated from base damage, that's why it seemed so low

Yeah unfortunately that doesn't help me LOL. If anybody has seen Fiery Soul Trap from a vendor and remembers the NPC name, that would be great.

I came to the same conclusion. it's a 25% boost, but it's calced from the base, and added in the same way the second attack in the power attack is added. weird.

My calculation was base if needed I can do another one for power attacks.

Game over man. Absolutely NO reason not to use Swords exclusively, even with the inaccurate perk data.
[img]http://www.diffpair.com/misc/Sword_vs_Mace.png[/img]

Maces don't start outpacing Swords until 272 True Armor Rating. So, Dragons, maybe. But I did some running around, and the highest I ever saw was a Riften Guard with 207 True Armor Rating. I even wrote a script so I could quickly gather data. Didn't matter. Swords win, hands down.

How about this one, shield vs grand healing. Ill get some data soon.
Ceshyr could I see the data u have on block?

Mother... edit and reply are too close to each other.

Here's the numbers I said I'd post something like two threads ago.

No Ancient Knowledge perk;

------------ One-Handed -----------

Daedric Dagger = 171
Daedric Mace = 536
Daedric War Axe = 527
Daedric Sword = 518

Ebony Dagger = 168
Ebony Mace = 536 (bugged?)
Ebony War Axe = 527 (bugged?)
Ebony Sword = 510

Glass Dagger = 165
Glass Mace = 518
Glass War Axe = 510
Glass Sword = 501

Elven Dagger = 162
Elven Mace = 510
Elven War Axe = 501
Elven Sword = 492

Nord Hero Dagger = N/A
Nord Hero Mace = N/A
Nord Hero War Axe = 501
Nord Hero Sword = 492

Skyforge Steel Dagger = 24 (Can't be improved, bug?)
Skyforge Steel Mace = N/A
Skyforge Steel War Axe = 501
Skyforge Steel Sword = 492

Dwarven Dagger = 159
Dwarven Mace = 501
Dwarven War Axe = 492
Dwarven Sword = 484

Orcish Dagger = 156
Orcish Mace = 492
Orcish War Axe = 484
Orcish Sword = 475

Steel Dagger = 153
Steel Mace = 484
Steel War Axe = 475
Steel Sword = 467

Iron Dagger = 85
Iron Mace = 289
Iron War Axe = 280
Iron Sword = 271

------------ Bows -----------

Daedric Bow = 562
Ebony Bow = 544
Glass Bow = 527
Elven Bow = 510
Nord Hero Bow = 95 (Can't be improved, bug?)
Skyforge Steel Bow = N/A
Dwarven Bow = 501
Orcish Bow = 484
Hunting Bow = 458 (Steel)
Long Bow = 263 (Iron)

------------ Two-Handed -----------

Daedric Warhammer = 631
Daedric Battelaxe = 613
Daedric Geatsword = 605

Ebony Warhammer = 613
Ebony Battelaxe = 596
Ebony Geatsword = 588

Glass Warhammer = 605
Glass Battelaxe = 588
Glass Geatsword = 579

Elven Warhammer = 596
Elven Battelaxe = 579
Elven Geatsword = 570

Nord Hero Warhammer = N/A
Nord Hero Battelaxe = 579
Nord Hero Geatsword = 570

Skyforge Steel Warhammer = N/A
Skyforge Steel Battelaxe = 579
Skyforge Steel Geatsword = 570

Dwarven Warhammer = 588
Dwarven Battelaxe = 570
Dwarven Geatsword = 562

Orcish Warhammer = 579
Orcish Battelaxe = 562
Orcish Geatsword = 553

Steel Warhammer = 570
Steel Battelaxe = 553
Steel Geatsword = 544

Iron Warhammer = 366
Iron Battelaxe = 349
Iron Geatsword = 340


If that is per swing then the faster attack speed of the sword will make the switch over point even higher in regards to dps. Do we have enough data on axes to do the same sort of chart?

Thanks.

That assumed a power attack, appropriate weapon perks, using the base weapon values you listed, and it is already normalized for swing speed. Those are true numbers. Axes will likely be less because the 20% damage is a bleed, 20% is less than 25%, and axes are slower than swords. I don't think Axes will come close, but we can try if you give me a few minutes. If enemies actually had some armor, maces would easily win, but since nobody wears armor, swords are king, and axes are likely a close second.

edit: the 20% appears to be working for both blades with a Dual Axe Power Attack. Axes might actually pull ahead here. Running the numbers. How often does the Axe Bleed proc?

Anyhow could someone link me to some block stats so I can do healing vs shield?

What exactly are you looking for? I ran some numbers with block but with 1300 posts good luck finding it

100%.


I just got decapitated with Immortal mode on, I'm now running around headless.

Ok, Axe is the best... if they bleed. Mace is the best... if they're are armored. Sword is the best... on average. Graph updated:

http://www.diffpair.com/misc/Sword_vs_Mace.png

I'm going to go make a Mage now. (grumble grumble useless maces)

Is that only if dual wielding or one handed as well?

One handed favors Swords slightly more, but the graphs are nearly identical. You need a microscope to tell them apart.

Highest armor enemy i can find is a 140 DR bandit. Oddly enough he was wearing full plate armor but had a light armor skill almost twice as high as his heavy armor (42 vs 25). I don't think bethesda thought that out very well.

My current puzzle is Draongs, and how they work. Checking all their stats at various difficulties. They can't just be huge piles of HP.

@jersam515 I dont have any data on block at the moment.. but you might find something useful in Thread 3 or 4. I know someone was poking around at it a while back. Iw as going to dig it up, but I haven't gottent o it yet, so I can't help much right now.

Fear the DRAONGS!

Edit: For [censored] n giggles I spawned Alduin on me, he has 3370 health and my mace does 48 damage, with or without the perk.

Oh, side note... Does Axe bleed stack? I thought you was a 6 second fixed damage, so Axe might actually fall behind swords if the fight takes more than a few seconds.

Regarding Dragons... i'm stumped. I've dumped all their stats on Novice, and again on Master, and nothing changes... except on Master they kill me a ton faster. I dumped my own stats as well, and nothing changed either. Very confused. Difficulty has a hidden multiplier?

The axe bleeds stack and difficulty only effects damage. If I remember my previous test correctly, incoming damage multipliers are x .50, x .75, x 1, x 1.5, x 2. Havent tested outgoing yet but I would guess it's just the other way round.

Edit; from one of my earlier posts;

So, axes have a timed bleed... which means they're actually fairly nerfed, since they can swing faster than the bleed can expire. This makes swords the best again, since that 40% extra damage is distributed over many swings. Honestly, burnt out on the 'super-optimal weapon' discussion. We're going to one-shot everything anyway, so I don't know why we care which is better over the course of 10 seconds. :-p

regarding the difficulty multipliers... are they inverse for each other? I checked Hit points, and they don't change for anybody, regardless of difficulty. On Novice, we get 2x damage and they get 0.5x damage, and on Masters it's the opposite? Seems... odd. But I guess it's the simplest way to create a difficulty slider.