Purpose of this thread:

And later on, he describes this in more detail.


So, your character, who is not allowed to do alchemy, will not be able to benefit from the damage boost alchemy provides. Your character would have to settle for pretty reasonable damage of 220.

A mage having to shoot a dragon with two arrows and drink a potion before dual casting his thunderbolts can't really say that he one shotted the dragon with a thunderbolt. I don't really like the concept of mages having to shoot their opponents with arrows to weaken them to magic so that their spells can be effective. Its kind of like a warrior having to cast a weakness to edged weapons spell on his opponent before he fights them.

Just wanted to express my appreciation to all the guys who have put this thread together, and also to ask a quick question regarding necromage; will the enchants on my existing gear get the boost from necromage as soon as I get the perk, or does it not affect existing enchants and I'll have to go through the crafting process again once I have necromage.

Cheers.

Have your follower poison the beasties then /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



The bonus from necromage to enchanted gear happens when you equip it, not when you make it. So, you may have to reequip your armor, but it should work fine.

This is an amazing resource! I just wish there was a bit more information about archery/bow use. Specifically, I'm wondering about the ideal endgame bow for a stealth archer. I've heard varying things. Obviously, the high damage of dragon bone is very attractive, but I keep hearing that Elven and Dwarven bows, because of their faster draw speeds, are the superior choice. Other people say that the Nightingale bow is all a bow-user will ever need.

I'm looking to power-game (hence my posting in this specific topic), so I am looking for the OPTIMAL choice, despite knowing that this is an easy game and that any equipment selection will work.

Any help would be appreciated!

Have you considered a crossbow and enchanted Dwarven bolts? I'd say Dragonbone is the best for damage followed by Zephyr for speed/damage. I am not that impressed by drawspeed because I am usually sneaking around carefully aiming with my bow drawn and ready. I use a self enchanted Ebony Bow and find it very fast, contrary to what's been reported. Something else to note is that the Bullseye perk is probably still bugged so that instead of a critical hit one-shotting your opponent, they will be paralysed with little damage to their health (this happens when you are powerful and capable of one-shotting enemies).

This is a very interesting topic.

I see things I didn't even know. I never thought about higher protection = slower speed.
I thought all heavy armour had the same slow-down effect.

Didn't fully read it yet, because I like reading long topics in the evening. I'm sure there's a lot more I didn't know.

IMO magic users get the most use out of this.

Hm... interesting! I hadn't actually considered a crossbow at all. Is it better for sneak-sniping or short-to-mid-range skirmishing? Also, are crossbows available at low levels or would one have to actually complete the Dawnguard DLC in order to have access to one? I don't have Dawnguard yet, but I'm certainly considering getting it.

Also, would you advise against picking up Bullseye, then? I'm on PC--is there an unofficial patch that resolves this issue?

I wanted to amend something included in Skyrim Alchemy 101.

There you list Giant's Toe + Wheat + Blue Butterfly Wing as one of the best potions for leveling alchemy. A better potion by far is Giant's Toe + Wheat + Scaly Pholia (or Wist Wrappings). The Foritfy Carry Weight portion adds considerably to the value of the potion, especially if you have taken benefactor rather than poisoner.

I'd definitely avoid the Bullseye perk, especially if you are planning on an OP stealth Archer. With high skill and at high levels it breaks your one-hit kills - or at least it did, as I don't know if it's been patched recently, and I don't use the Unofficial Patch, but it might also fix this (I'd ask in their thread if you don't find any info on it). I'd add that it's possible this 'feature' may not be considered broken.

I don't use a crossbow, but they are supposedly great for a first hit, as they take the longest time to reload, but have compensating high damage. I think that crossbows/bolts have a higher stagger proc combined with high damage as well (staggering comes with less damage when using ordinary bows).
You can get them early from the Dawnguard no matter what side you choose (and there is also a location that will give you respawning enchanted bolts), but if you want the enhanced bows and to be able to craft them yourself you need to join the Dawnguard faction. If you liked crossbows you could probably hot key a system with your first shot from your crossbow, and then switch to an ordinary bow. You can also loot plain Dwarven bolts from Automatons - and your best arrows/bolts add to the maximum damage equation. Buying Dawnguard will also give you the ability to craft any arrows yourself, instead of having to purchase them from a vendor, so you can always have Daedric.

Indeed they are good for a first hit. I hate the reload time >=/ so if you miss, oh boy do you pay for it.


..I didn't know bullseye was bugged *too lazy to go in game right now to see if I learned it*

Back after such a long time /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> This should be on the first page.
Why not do some math on a char with necromage + the crown from Dawnguard which can store two standing stones ( just started playing it ) or with the new mask from Dragonborn.
Maybe I missed it but there are supposed to be some permanent smithing effects from some quest + new effects from DB that could get the numbers even higher.

There are definately higher numbers.A necromage vampire using the black book skills and Azhidal's armor can craft fortify alchemy/smithing gear of +43%, fortify enchanting potions of +61%, and fortify smithing potions of +243%. This enables gear to be made that gives zero cost casting in a magic school with only two enchantment slots. So you can cast all five schools for free using a penoc or falmer helmet or four schools for free with standard gear. The chaos weapon enchantment when combined with shock enchnatment has a 50% chance of doing 283 points damage for EACH element and 182 points shock damage. You can swap out shock damage for 118 absorb health. Basic steel weapons can be smithed to just under 500 damage with only the 5/5 weapon skills and no fortify weapon enchantments. The addition of the black book and Azhidal's armor really supercharged the standard alchemy/enchanting loop. Anyway the numbers are obscene. With fortify weapon enchantments I had a bow doing over 2,700 standard non sneak damage without any fortify restoration.

IMO, you want a heavy bow. Yes, a lighter bow will draw slightly faster, but the trade off is that you have a slower projectile and a more pronounced fall-off at range. These will conspire to make you miss shots. Especially as a stealth archer, you want a strong bow which fires true. The quick-shot perk will more than make up for the lower draw speed, because only part of your draw time is determined by bow weight, whereas 100% of the draw animation is sped up by Quick-shot. So, the ultimate archer, IMO, is a stealther using a dragon-bone bow, with 8 perks invested in Archery:

5 Overdraw
1 Eagle Eye
1 Power Shot
1 Quick Shot

If you're a fan of slow-time (I am not, it interferes with my aim when leading targets) you can drop 2 points in steady aim. All other perks are utter junk. Critical shot only adds a percentage of the weapon's BASE damage (unaffected by skill, enchants, perks, etc.), Hunter's Discipline simply isn't worth a perk when arrows are cheap and weightless, Ranger MIGHT be fun if it didn't require two DOGS to obtain, and Bullseye will cause your targets to fall over, making them harder, rather than easier, to hit, to say nothing of reported buggy behaviour.

The speed of the bow determines trajectory not the weight. The Dragon Bone bow is one of the quicker bows with a speed of .75. By this measure the Daedric bow will have a flatter trajectory than the Dragon Bow even though the Dragon Bone bow will do more DPS due to its speed of fire and damage. I have never had a problem hitting distant targets with the hunting bow and it fires very fast which is great for close targets and when you use smithing/enchanting/alchemy all the weapons end up having negligible differences in damage. With this in mind I don't think it matters which bow you use as long as it can be improved by one of the smithing perks.

I'll be damned, you're right. Sorry, s/Dragonbone Bow/Daedric Bow/.

However, it's not the drop-off that annoys me so much as the slower projectile. The way the flatter trajectories work is that the slower-drawing bows unleash a faster arrow. That means not only do you have less drop off, but also you need to lead your targets much, much less.

Now for my own question:

I'm contemplating a 2 hander/Sneak/Archer build. For those of you using two handed builds with block perks, what's the mathematically optimal investment? Is 5/5 shield wall necessary? I'd love to see some game mechanics for blocking.

There is some good blocking info in this very thread, post #4.

Watch out, there are a few minor spoilers about the dragonborn dlc.
Hey, some new information with dragonborn dlc out. If you read the black book "The Sallow Regent" found in White Ridge Barrow, and choose the Seeker of Sorcery ability, the UESP wiki says the following happens "All spells cost 10% less magicka. Enchantments are 10% more powerful.", even though in game the text only says the first sentence. I tested it out and it does increase your enchantments by 10%. What this means is that the Fortify Enchanting Potion should go up to 35%, and the Fortify Alchemy Enchantment should go up to 33%. I got these numbers from running a program in java using integer division to get it to eventually level. Also, if you already have your alchemy gear set up at 29% boost per piece of equipment, I think it takes 4 trips of enchanting and potion making to get to those numbers.

Another important thing is after you beat the main quest of Dragonborn, you have the ability to reset your perk points. At the cost of 1 dragon soul per tree you want to reset. So 18 to get back all your perk points if you have one in all of them. This means you can waste these perks to get your armor, enchantments, potions, and weapons to the max, then reset those trees and use the 20 something perks somewhere else.

Oh yeah, the ingredient Spawn Ash has fortify enchanting, and it appears everywhere, so it is pretty easy to use.

Also, being a vampire and having the perk Necromage, it gives a 25% boost to buffs on yourself, I am not totally sure how this works, but using the same java code as before, if when you drink a potion and it gets multiplied by 1.25 and your fortify alchemy goes up to 1.25, after 5 iterations, your fortify alchemy is 48% and your fortify enchanting potion is 54%. If it just armor buffs and stuff, you get 41% potion and 44% fortify alchemy enchantment (4 iterations). If it is just potions, it gets 45% potion, 36% fortify alchemy enchantment (4 iterations).

So all this stuff makes this way more powerful, I plan on testing this over the next few days so I'll report back. I will be doing this as a vampire with Necromage because it has the highest potential. Also because it increases your buffs by 1.25, if you have 4 one handed buffs, it doubles your damage. I plan on ditching being a vampire after I max out because it is annoying to have to feed and how stuff doesn't regenerate during the day.

I think that's it, feel free to add more.

Oh yeah, all the numbers are hypothetical, but the book does increase enchanting by 10%. And you can definitely reset perk points

After doing everything, you get a fortify enchanting potion that says 41% (51% as vampire+necromage), and fortify alchemy enchantments that have 35%(43% as V+N). It is benificial to maximize under V+N, but if you drop down after you have made all your potions and enchantments, they will be 35%/41% respectively.

Why do you keep comparing armor perks without considering that power attacks cost stamina or the final perk?

Using restore to bring back stamina for running makes any running comparisions moot because it doesn't affect run speed or base stamina regen but only light armor gives stamina regen perk (for offensive use)

I believe 10% damage reflection is only based of the damage you take--gets worst the closer to armor cap you get. I also believe that the 10% dodge from Light armor is going to be a static avoidance (like the magic version) that goes before your damage midagation and could take 4 instead of 5 points to get to the 100 skill perk (but honestly, the 5 route on light is better because of the stamina regen rate bonus)

When you equip a set of Elven armor with the perk "unhindered" then all the elven armor in your backpack becomes wieghless as well and you can have different sets for different uses.

COME ON GUYS!! L2PLAY!

Seriously though, why the lack of comparisons of weapons like you compared crafted armor? I heard rumors that the high end unique weapons combined with smithing perk to increase already enchanted items gives higher then max smithed weapons

- An absorb 1 stamina enchant on your weapons (or delicious Vegetable Soup) make any stamina concerns for power attacks moot. The last HA perk is rubbish. The last LA perk is slightly less rubbish. The Steed stone makes Conditioning/Unhindered worthless.
Other than taking enough +armor perks to get close to the cap, I prefer taking some utility perks in speech or pickpocket over any of the deeper perks in the armor trees.

- See above. A simple enchant makes Wind Walker redundant.

- See above. The last armor perks aren't exactly the cream of the crop.

- If you have Extra Effect from enchanting, you only really need one set of armor. You may want to make exstra sets to increase your crafting skills, but those can be left in your house.

- Unique weapons are largely rubbish for a multitude of reasons. Either they can't be improved, their special effects doesn't scale or they have poor enchants (or in one case, is absurdly overpowered to the point of trivializing the entire game). The only good one I know of is Chillrend. The lvl 40 version of that is actually better than a glass sword and the enchantment is pretty good (but you have to wait until you're level 40 to pick it up :/ ) .

Except for the unique weapons, which are, indeed, almost all junk compared to making your own, all of those examples can be applied in reverse, so whether it's better to take a perk or make an enchantment isn't exactly clear-cut. That said, some of the perks in question require you take one or two more to get them, so the cumulative cost may not be worth it if your build is already tight on picks (which a lot of sub-L65 builds are).

I tend to go for the perks over the enchantments, but then my game is modded so that the 'starter' perks don't require 5 picks; since that frees up 20-25 picks, depending on build, I can afford to spend several on such things, while someone playing 'vanilla' might not be able to. Same with the Standing Stones, as I'm not a fan of temporary buffs (yeah, they last for seven hours, but they're still temporary) and don't care to start each session by fast-traveling to the stone to refresh it. That almost all of them can be duplicated by enchanting (at least to some extent) is just salt in the wound.

I do agree on Dual Enchant; I used to carry around two sets, since one was for crafting, but I discovered I didn't really use it once I got 100 Enchantment and could stack effectively, so I stopped bothering.