[WiP] DU - Complete Economy Overhaul

This is a mod that I've been working on for a while now (overall my first real work on something substantial as a releasable mod), and am getting close enough to release that I wanted to put some info out there and get a bit of feedback/reaction from the community here. The idea all started from my extreme dissapointment in how alternate currencies (NCR script / Legion coin) were implemented in FNV by default, and my desire to change that. The more I worked on the fleshing out ideas I had, the more I realized that my changes were necessarily going to start influencing some of the other aspects of the in-game economy that don't sit quite right with me... which lead to the idea of making this more all encompassing.

That having been said, there are three main focuses to this mod.

• Make alternate currencies actually matter, rather than just being another random widget to trade for caps at the first available opportunity
  
• Make the overall in-game economy more of a challenge to master for the player -- ie, make it more difficult to end up with more money than you know what to do with
  
• Add various NPCs offering different goods and services - both to act as money sinks in general, as well as to add some additional content/flavor to the game

The plan is to make a good portion of the mod optional - mostly with optional files for now (I don't know that in-game configuration will really make sense for this mod - but I'm open to the concept if that is where things end up heading).

Features of the mod (including currently implemented, scheduled to be worked on before release, and future plans):
Note: Some planned features will require NVSE - I expect that to be v2 of this mod, most likely not included in the original release

• (Done) Change several quest rewards from caps, to the "more appropriate" currency type based on the quest/quest giver. (Currently over three dozen entries modified, for over 9000 caps worth of rewards changed)
  
• (Ongoing) Change several dialogue options where the player pays an NPC, to be have options to pay in different currencies as appropriate (with different values to that currency as appropriate)
  
• (Done) Change default barter skill game settings for dealing with vendors (making purchase prices higher and selling prices lower - common to many other mods)
  
• (Ongoing) Change certain appropriate vendors to remove most of (if not all of) the caps in their respawning inventory, and add an amount of the appropriate alternate currency
  
• (Not yet started) Change certain appropriate vendors to value alternate currencies as appropriate (ie. NCR Quartermaster will treat NCR script at face value, while treating Legion coin as worthless)
  
• (Not yet started) Change a few additional vendors to take your faction reputation into account when setting prices (only a small handful do so in the vanilla game from what I've seen), and adjust some of the values of those who do alter their rates based on factions/quests (some of them feel rather extreme)
  
• (Not yet started) Change select doctors to charge alternate currency rather than caps for their services.
  
• (Not yet started) Change several vendors to favor appropriate items based on merchant type and location -- example: Trudy in Goodsprings won't value purified water very highly, nor would she be interested in paying normal price to buy your extra set of armor.
  
• (Not yet started) Change select vendors who repair to use alternate currency instead of caps for repair costs.
  
• (Abandoned feature) Change Caravan players settings so less of their total caps are up for grabs per game (especially vendors who play Caravan with their store's caps) This option no longer appears to be needed after changes made by the last major patch. If someone has evidence to the contrary, please bring it to my attention - otherwise I'm crossing this one off and moving on to other things.
  
• (Done) Change Casino Cashier's to take a % "exchange fee" anytime NCR script or Legion coin is exchanged (as the casino's favored currency, caps are not charged any fees)(Note: Changes to Casino Cashiers can already be seen in the initial release version of "DU - Currency Exchange Rates" which is what basically became this mod)
  
• (Done) Change Casino Cashiers to use the same exchange rate (4 chips per $10 NCR or 1 Denarius) when purchasing chips, but a worse rate when exchanging chips for NCR/Legion currency. (Really the worse rate is their default, but to encourage people to come and play, they give chips out at an 'improved' rate)
  
• (Done) Add a new NPC to the Crimson Caravan main building, who deals with currency exchange for anyone interested. Like the casino cashiers, he take a (smaller) % from every transaction as an exchange fee. Unlike the casino cashiers, all transactions are based on his currently established exchange rate. Exchange rates fluxuate randomly every few days, independantly for NCR or Legion currency (if you work REALLY hard at it, you can actually profit from exchanging currency back and forth at the extreme rates on each end - but this takes a lot of time and some luck). Eventually I plan to have the exchange rates somewhat influenced by player actions pertaining to each faction. It is also noteable that unlike the casino cashiers, this NPC has a limited amount of each type of currency on hand for exchanging at any time (replenishing random amounts often).
  
• (Done)(Optional addon) Add a new NPC to Camp Golf who sells ammunition (with randomly replenished supply), will take custom orders for handloaded ammo (expensive!), and will buy empty cases and hulls from the player -- all for NCR script only. Also will have his own quest he'll send the player on. (Note: a mostly complete version of this has already been released as a seperate mod "DU - AmmoSmith")
  
• (In progress)(Optional addon) Add a new NPC to Cottonwood Overlook who sells certain survival-skill-crafted drugs/medicine to the player, will also buy some of the raw materials he needs from the player -- all for Legion coin only. Actually uses his stock of materials to make medicine (so limited supply to sell), and will pay varying amounts for some raw materials depending on his supply (pays more if he is out of stock, less if he has alot on hand). Also will have his own quest he'll send the player on.
  
• (In progress)(Optional addon) Add a new NPC to Mojave Outpost who will put the player through certain "military training courses" (aka custom minor perks) for NCR script. Also will have multiple quests that he'll send the player on.
  
• (In progress)(Optional addon) Add a new NPC to the NCR Embassy who will pay the player for certain books brought to him in good condition (changes pre-war books in game to have a chance on pick-up to be "one of the ones he's looking for", for anyone who misses the old days of paying attention to pre-war vs. burned out books - but only some pre-war books will be valuable, most of the 1000 placed in the world won't)
  
• (Not yet started)(Optional addon) Add a new NPC to The Fort who will trade certain supplies and/or Legion coin for various food stuffs. Also will have his own quest he'll send the player on.
  
• (Not yet started)(Optional addon) Add a new NPC to Camp McCarran who will pay bounties (as quests) in NCR script for taking out certain Legion individuals also added by this addon.
  
• (Not yet started)(Optional addon) Add a new NPC to Cottonwood Cove who will pay bounties (as quests) in Legion coin for taking out certain NCR individuals also added by this addon.
  
• ...a few other NPC based optional add on that are still in too much of a rough concept stage to mention here...

For those who don't mind spoilers, a list of quest NPCs that have been altered already. If you know of others that you think should also be changed, please bring them to my attention, as I'm certain this list isn't complete yet.




I have an idea / suggestion of something else you could do to improve the in-game economy...
Please, by all means share! I may or may not use your idea, but I'm always happy to hear thoughts of other players. If I like your idea, I'll use it (and credit you for your help). Even ideas that I don't like sometimes put me on a line of thinking that leads to something I'll end up using though...

Are you going to change all vendors / quests / etc to value things differently?
No, only certain ones as it seems/feels appropriate within context. Example: folks in Novac will always prefer caps over other currencies, and Crimson Caravan quests will always pay in caps.

Why the "DU" in the mod name?
Habit - I tag all of my personal mods with DU (Dark Uncle) for easy identification. Since this started as a personal mod that I'm now planning to release, it stuck around.

Economy aspect really needs an overhaul and its good to see someone work on it. Im going to make the same request i did for FO3: make a NV version of Enhanced Economy from OB where different kinds of shopkeepers offer different trade rates for different good types. I want to have a reason to sell guns to a gunsmith, booze to a bartender, gen supplies to a general trader, etc. Right now, im only roleplaying it in my head by not selling stuff to the wrong vendor type.

I noticed you already have an NPC who will have varying trade prices according to supply and demand just Enhanced Economy had. Why not make it the same way for every trader?

will definitely be keeping an eye on this. any eta?

Never played OB so not familiar with that mod, but had that thought a while back. It is on my list of things I'd like to do but need to research more first (I'm hoping there is an easier way to do it than what I'm thinking off the top of my head, which would be... exhaustive, possibly unreasonably so...)


Off the top of my head, I cannot think of a way to do that for normal merchants (within reason). The way that I've implemented it for this one NPC is -not- using the normal barter menu, and took several lines of dialogue and a decent amount of scripting PER ITEM that he pays variable amounts for. So... yeah. Unless I can divine a better way to do it (possibly - I'm still quite new to this), it isn't realistic for multiple items.


I'm hoping to have an initial release by the end of the month - at least of the main mod (with most, but not all features) and one or two of the addons.

This sounds interesting, I'm looking forward to it.

Another feature of Enhanced Economy is that prices vary depending on location; I think this could work in New Vegas. For example, purified water and gecko meat could be worth almost nothing in Goodsprings, but the water could be valuable in Novac and the meat could be valuable in Freeside.

Interesting... and should certainly be doable. Worth taking a look into at any rate.

The NPC addon sounds awesome. I too miss visiting different traders to sell your stuff. And the caravan adjustments I am looking forward too as well. Right now, I can't help but exploit the "buy your whole inventory, beat you at caravan to win every cap back" trick.

I have only played a little bit since the patch, but it appears that this exploit has (at least somewhat) been closed. At least, I've had the dialogue option to play another hand of Caravan fail to appear after winning a hand against the vendors who play. Haven't had a chance to look at this in the GECK yet, but this might reduce the need to do too much about it...

I am looking forward to this so much, that I will probably wait until your release before I play again. And when could we expect that release?

...and that is still my hope.

Over the last several days I've been playing a bit to get a feel for the changes in the patch, as well as play testing a bunch of the quest changes (also doing some work on the second addon). The way things look right now, I'm likely going to button up some of the currently "in progress" portions, and then put out what I've got so far -- before starting on the NVSE-required version, which will include more of the currently "not yet started" features.

That would be pretty awesome.

Perhaps another interesting mechanic is to have NPC's who want the other sides cash to improve their own.
Say a Vulimentarii who wants lots of NCR cash to mess with their currency market or a NCR economist who wants to smelt legion coins to strengthen the NCR dollar. A quest of sorts where once you have brought in enough, there will be a shift in exchange value.

Something... somewhat along those lines is already on my list of long term plans. I don't want to say any more right now, so as not to spoil anything when I do get that far. Right now I'm focusing more on the mechanics, with most of the quests side of things coming after that.

(Again, 98% of this is stuff that I'm learning as I go - so things like the features I haven't started on yet, and things that I don't even know for a fact that my "theory" of how things will work... will prove to be correct)

It's okay I added it more as a long term suggestion.

I'll just add that this is on my most anticipated-mod-list and one of four mods I'm waiting on before starting a new game.

Now there is one very flattering compliment... I'll try my best to live up to it.

Just out of curiosity, what are the other three?

I really like the idea of items being worth more or less depending on the vendor. It makes sense that Quartermaster Torres would pay a lot more for a laser weapon, power armor, and e-weaps ammo than Chet. Really looking forward to this mod!

I'm really hoping I can include that sort of functionality. Off the top of my head, the only way that I can think of to do that is using the NVSE functions GetValue/SetValue... but that would be for every item, and in order to maintain other aspects of the game outside of barter (ie, repair pricing, being able to see the relative worth of something when you pick it up, etc) it seems I'd need to leave values alone until you talk to a vendor, and then drop the value of EVERY item that vendor isn't interested in.

...not only would that be a lot of work, I'd be worried about making a few hundred function calls every time you go into and come out of the barter menu. :/


I sent a PM to the creator of Enhanced Economy for Oblivion... hopefully he can help shed some light on how he accomplished this in his mod (I don't have Oblivion, so difficult for me to investigate on my own). Then there is just the question of that insight being helpful or not, with what has been changed between Oblivion and New Vegas. *shrug*

Wow, that would be crazy. Too bad there's no way to set each vendor as interested in X type of item (weapon/armor/energy/tech/food/drink/misc) and script something like "if item is in X category, lower value by Y" so that all you'd need to do is set each vendor to their respective interests and then set each item to its respective type. Perhaps a script, "if item is Weapon(guns/exp/ew/melee/unarmed), set type to WeapGun (or WeapExp, WeapEW, WeapMel, WeapUA)" and so forth. Even then it'd be a lot of work, lol.

One way to handle this would be to make formlists containing similar items - meats, prewar foods, rare ammo, power armor, etc... You can step through a formlist to adjust all items in the same category by the same amount (take the item value of each item in the list and multiply it by an adjustment factor, keeping track of what the current adjustment factor is for that category so that you don't compound adjustments). It's easier to drag and drop a bunch of items into a form list than it is to type each individual one into a script.

Weapon Mods eXpanded by Antistar, Future Weapons Today and the next XFO-NV release.

I was already thinking of something similar, contained within a script (set a variable for each "type", then have the script have everything listed - each adjusted by the appropriate variable, such that for each vendor it's a 'paste' followed by changing the initial set statements only --- but I do like the idea of using formlists for it, as that would help for organization and later modification if nothing else.

Two questions:

1) Imp, can you (or anyone else reading this) give me an example / help me understand how to step through the formlist like that? That is outside of my current scripting experience (I'm a quick study, I just need an example to go off of)

2) Is adjusting the value of hundreds of items each time you go in and out of a barter menu going to be "too much" from a performance point of view? (Either at the time, or in any cumulative aspect? I don't really have a good feel for "how much is too much" in this engine...)

That puts this mod in some very good company.

(I'm also anxiously awaiting WMX and FWT specifically -- both of which I'm planning on making some optional compatability mods to help CEO fit with them)

Note that XFO and CEO will conflict a bit with barter settings. I haven't taken a look under the hood at what Xodarap is doing for NV, so I'm not sure how his tweaks compare to mine... but his stated goal of steepening the barter curve, making the economy harsher, and making CHA and barter more relevant, will all be taken into account / dealt with in CEO. Without knowing exactly what he's changing (ie, anything beyond the four main barter values), I'm not sure how the two would interact beyond just the later loaded one overriding the other.

Good thing his mod is so modular, then.
I was planning on excluding XFO-NV's barter settings in favor of this mod.

Ah, right - I forgot how modular he makes everything.

Here's some code where I step through a formlist. For performance reasons, it only processes one element per frame rather than using label/goto to do it all in one pass. As for modifying the prices of a gazillion items, it's something you'd have to test. Ordinarily I'd say its no problem, but I've noticed my computer struggle a bit when first entering the barter menu (or opening any container that has a lot of stuff in it). The best route would be to adjust the prices as soon as the player enters dialog with a vendor, though I'm not sure how you can determine who the PC is talking to.

	IF sListLength == ListGetCount IAPiggyBackList       ; checks to see if new items have been added to the form list	ELSE                                                                     ; if they have...		IF rContainer                                                   ; this script is attached to a token in the inventory of an actor (multiple actors, actually - all of them)			IF sListIndex < ListGetCount IAPiggyBackList     ; sListIndex is the index for stepping through the form list				set sIndex to sListIndex				set sListIndex to sListIndex + 1				set rToken to ListGetNthForm IAPiggyBackList sIndex				IF rContainer.getitemcount rToken				ELSE					rContainer.additem rToken 1				ENDif			ELSE				set sListLength to ListGetCount IAPiggyBackList				set sListIndex to 0			ENDif		ELSE			set rContainer to getcontainer		ENDif	ENDif

*Edit - you'd probably want something like this:

        sIndex = 0        Label 10              IF sIndex < ListGetCount YourFormList                     set rItem to ListGetNthForm YourFormList sIndex                     set fPrice to fAdjustmentFactor * GetValue rItem                     SetValue rItem fPrice                     set sIndex to sIndex + 1                     Goto 10              ENDif

Also, a way to determine if the player is in dialog with a given vendor would be to have a formlist of vendor refs that you step through, checking first to see if the vendor is in the same cell as the player, and second to see if the player is pointing at the vendor using getheadingangle. This would run in a menumode block every time the player enters the conversation menu.

       sIndex = 0       set rVendor to 0       Label 20             IF sIndex < ListGetCount VendorFormList && rVendor == 0                     set rVendor to ListGetNthForm VendorFormList sIndex                     IF rVendor.getinsamecell player                             set fAngle to player.getheadingangle rVendor                             set fAngle to abs fAngle                             IF fAngle > 3                                       set rVendor to 0                             ENDif                      ELSE                             set rVendor to 0                      ENDif                      Goto 20               ENDif          IF rVendor                   ; adjust prices          ENDif 

Imp: As always, thanks for your help in learning more about scripting. It is much appreciated.


Two questions off the top of my head looking at this:

1) Just to confirm, ListGetNthForm index starts with 0? (So a list with ten items would have 0 - 9, yes?)

2) For determining talking to a vendor, etc - I was considering using the dialogue script blocks. Other than being incompatible with other mods that change those vendor's dialogue, is there a particular downside to doing it that way that I'm unaware of? (It means duplicating the script entirely, but not looking at that large of a script overall, and it simplifies knowing when to run and what values to use at what times)


A downside to doing it this way that I also realized last night -- I need to be setting the values BACK after bartering with the vendor. Short of storing those values (either with a var or hardcoding), I don't know how to do that (as I'm assuming there isn't any "SetToOriginalBaseValue" function anywhere). Hrm...