Complete Installation Guide : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:41 am

It's not necessarily a great idea, I think. The reason being, mods are changing, evolving things. And FCOM? Well, that's for the most part simply the glue that holds together up to four large overhauls, and often a bunch of other stuff as well. Each of those overhauls has had updates, just in this last year, IIRC. Or at least two of them have, for sure. A number, in one case. So, yes, you could try to have a "complete installation guide" or whatever, but it would always be at risk of becoming outdated, and therefore misleading.

Besides, FCOM installation, though perhaps at first a bit daunting, isn't hard. Not really. You follow the instructions, and it works. Can't ask for more than that, IMO.

Well, I do find it daunting to say-the-least. On the MMM site it tells you to install in one order - and on here it tells you to install in another order.
Also - when looking at the Wrye Bash after the install - it tells you you need this or that mod to make this or that work.

It does get confusing - sadly. And while I would love to say I'm a smart guy (which I am when it comes to computers) even some of the instructions from all sources gets confusing and not really sure which part to install and not install and how to install - whether I can use Wrye Bast to do the install or OBMM or have to unzip and add the contents myself. Can you image a newbie trying this out - it would cause Advil's stock to increase with the sales.

I am NOT knocking FCOM - they have put together a great mod - and for free. They are doing this for the love of the game - and giving us an experience that Bethesda couldn't/wouldn't give us. So I am not knocking their work at all.

Just would have been really nice to have a better organized walk through for the installation of the all the mods; nothing more than that.

I have to look at it this way: to get the mods to work right can take four or five hours. That is not including having to download the mods - which if you had to do can take several hours (depending on connection speed) and sometimes you have to hunt for the mod.

I've actually run into issues where I did the install - and when I run Wrye Bash it tells me some esm or bsa is missing - and I have to google the info and try to get the mod just to get the missing part.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:10 pm

I actually made a walk through using MS Word
Just the basics - nothing fancy. Took me a few days as I tried to do the install and what I was doing.
Now, that being said, it's easy to make a walk through that would be plain - simple, with a few links for the files needed for the FCOM install.
Here is my take (and again - I am not bashing anyone nor trying to over step any boundaries).

1) Make it clear this is for FCOM install only - and any other mods will need to be done by the author and readme's.
2) This is a basic installation guide and any problems should be posted or searched for here.

I would - since they are popular mods - include the following installation guide "help" or after the fact:
Robert's body replacer
Exnem
Better Cities
Unique Landscape

Other than that - wouldn't really go further (I guess in my view it's just being nice since a lot of people may use those already)

Again, I was not looking to start an argument - and from what I have read no one has tried to be insulting or degrading in their post - just suggestions.
I have written many walk through and guides for customers (even those that are dumb as bricks) because it's the nice thing to do.
That's all I was trying to get here -

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:24 pm

You didn't start any argument - it was all things we have said to each other before being repeated. I really should have stayed out of it as I should stay out of most FCOM threads unless I have a question.

That is my best advice at this point - just ask simple direct questions in the FCOM thread and you will get your answer.

Sorry for engaging in this again good folks.

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:04 am

Couldn't someone start a wiki page somewhere that has all the install info gathered into one place? Then the process documentation could be properly refined to the point where everyone can agree on the way to do it, without any one person being able to block updates indefinitely for whatever reason. Someone leaves the project for an extended time? No problem, others who know the process can simply update it as needed. Someplace more permanent feeling than the transient forum threads here that need to keep getting reposted every 200 replies. That way a hard link to SOMETHING can get generated.

Looking at it all from an outsider's perspective, I'd never even dream of attempting to follow the process as it's currently laid out. It's far to confusing and involves far too many steps and even with as much knowledge of how mods work as I have, I'd shy away from it even if I really truly wanted it all. So what I'm basically getting at is even when insiders balk at the disorganized process it might be time to let someone take a fresh stab at documenting it all over again.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:57 pm

Well, I do find it daunting to say-the-least. On the MMM site it tells you to install in one order - and on here it tells you to install in another order.

Which MMM site? Do you mean the online readme? And in what way does it have a different recommended install order than "on here", whatever that means. In short, more details would be helpful.

Looking at it all from an outsider's perspective, I'd never even dream of attempting to follow the process as it's currently laid out. It's far to confusing and involves far too many steps and even with as much knowledge of how mods work as I have, I'd shy away from it even if I really truly wanted it all.

Honestly, if you have experience of installing mods before and of Wrye Bash and BOSS there's not much to it. I'm pretty sure you could install FCOM rather easily by just following the opening post in the FCOM thread. I agree that it's not newbie friendly, though - I mean just installing Wrye Bash can be daunting for newbies. In short, if you're completely new to everything it is a daunting task to install FCOM. This would surely be helped by having a Tomlong-like site guiding through everything. But if you find these forums and thus the FCOM thread you have access to all the info you need about installing Wrye Bash, using BOSS etc. It's basically a question of taking the time to read readmes, following guides etc. So while I certainly agree that the situation isn't ideal I don't think it's that catastrophical. And, honestly, most of these complaint threads whiffs a bit of playing the world's smallest violin IMO.

In short, just as with Richard the Geek above I'd like more details. "It's far to confusing and involves far too many steps" isn't really helpful IMO. :shrug:

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:25 pm

Which MMM site? Do you mean the online readme? And in what way does it have a different recommended install order than "on here", whatever that means. In short, more details would be helpful.

Honestly, if you have experience of installing mods before and of Wrye Bash and BOSS there's not much to it. I'm pretty sure you could install FCOM rather easily by just following the opening post in the FCOM thread. I agree that it's not newbie friendly, though - I mean just installing Wrye Bash can be daunting for newbies. In short, if you're completely new to everything it is a daunting task to install FCOM. This would surely be helped by having a Tomlong-like site guiding through everything. But if you find these forums and thus the FCOM thread you have access to all the info you need about installing Wrye Bash, using BOSS etc. It's basically a question of taking the time to read readmes, following guides etc. So while I certainly agree that the situation isn't ideal I don't think it's that catastrophical. And, honestly, most of these complaint threads whiffs a bit of playing the world's smallest violin IMO.

In short, just as with Richard the Geek above I'd like more details. "It's far to confusing and involves far too many steps" isn't really helpful IMO. :shrug:

I would be willing to start a wiki for the FCOM installation guide while I am here on break, if I could get the okay from Corepc. It would not be too hard to get it to a finished state if it were just an install guide. FCOM Convergence contains much more than that. It seems that the confusing part for new users is trying to master all of the external tools (i.e., Bash, OBMM, etc.) A non-newbie-friendly guide wouldn't be that long at all. The longest part of my guide is converting packages for BAIN, and I have uploaded BCFs to take care of most of that work.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:51 pm

Which MMM site? Do you mean the online readme? And in what way does it have a different recommended install order than "on here", whatever that means. In short, more details would be helpful.

Here's the link for MMM Install: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1116296-relz-martsmonstermod37b3-public-release-3-relz//
Here is the list of install order:
Unofficial Patches, DLC Mod Patches
Fran's, OOO, WarCry, Bob's Armory, Armamentarium, Artifacts
MMM
Cobl, Cobl Races
Body Replacers
FCOM
Texture Replacers

Now here is the install order for FCOM from this site:
Unofficial Oblivion Patch
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch (if applicable)
DLC's + Patches (if applicable)
Francesco's Creatures-Items 4.5 (optional)
OOO version 1.33 full patched to OOO 1.34 beta5 (required)
Oblivion WarCry patched to 1.085b, patched to OblivionWarCry 1.09 (optional)
Bob's Armory 1.1 (optional)
Armamentarium and Artifacts (optional)
Mart's Monster Mod 3.7b3 (required), Diverse WaterLife Update 3.7b3pF (optional, if applicable)
Cobl (optional)
MMM 3.7b3 Cobl Update (optional, if applicable)
Cobl Races (optional)
FCOM 9.9 + supported add-ons (add-ons optional)
Body Replacement mods (Roberts, Exnem. EVE etc) (optional)
Texture replacers (optional)

Note a few things change here: 1) MMM states to install MMM and then Cobl, Cobl Races and Body Replacers.

The FCOM site states to install Body Replacement mobs after FCOM
Also the slight (but subtle) difference of MMM – Coble, Cobl Races and then FCOM
MMM does make the state to rename the BSA but on this site that information is at the top (where it should actually be placed within the text of installs as a (NOTE).

As an experienced tech / computer gamer I know to look back and forth – but for someone that doesn't really have that “experiance) they wouldn't know to do that; or at best forget to do that or not look at the other guides.

While there is slight destinctions here on the install – it's enough to confuse someone that really is either new or knows just enough to do something but not that great at installing mods.

Honestly, if you have experience of installing mods before and of Wrye Bash and BOSS there's not much to it. I'm pretty sure you could install FCOM rather easily by just following the opening post in the FCOM thread. I agree that it's not newbie friendly, though - I mean just installing Wrye Bash can be daunting for newbies. In short, if you're completely new to everything it is a daunting task to install FCOM. This would surely be helped by having a Tomlong-like site guiding through everything. But if you find these forums and thus the FCOM thread you have access to all the info you need about installing Wrye Bash, using BOSS etc. It's basically a question of taking the time to read readmes, following guides etc. So while I certainly agree that the situation isn't ideal I don't think it's that catastrophical. And, honestly, most of these complaint threads whiffs a bit of playing the world's smallest violin IMO.

No, not trying to make it come across as playing the “poor pity me” card -I don't go in for that. For me it was more of a suggestion and “straight forward guide to installing FCOM” - nothing more – no complaints – no whinning. Just a suggestion and nothing more. To me the context of the post has been taken completely out of order by some -

In short, just as with Richard the Geek above I'd like more details. "It's far to confusing and involves far too many steps" isn't really helpful IMO. :shrug:

» Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:01 am

I have installed FCOM this week aswell. having been gone from oblivion for more then 2 years.

I [censored] it up the first try. as I already had other mods installed aswel. and I kept crashing.

with a clean install. following guides. there were a few things I still did wrong etc.

I followed DEV_AKM's site. wich aperently is outdated. so I did not have everything working correctly. because things like MMM.bsa were not there.
In the end I got quite frustrated and made a thread for my own and got the best help anyone could get. and I had everything working properly within a couple of hours.
I looked over the part in the opening post were it said to rename the MMM.BSA and also looked over a few patches for a couple of mods. other then maybe the layout all info is in the opening post.

all in all I can say it was a lot of reading, and yes writing 1 guid would be cool. but with dev_akm's site being the top op searching on google etc, it will be hard leading people there.

I also dont know what BAIN is, guessing it's some sort of OBMM but better?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:57 pm

I also dont know what BAIN is, guessing it's some sort of OBMM but better?

BAIN is Wrye BAsh INstaller, the same Wrye Bash that you need to build the Bashed patch for FCOM to work. It has an in-built installer that is much superior to OBMM. Read http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=wrye_bash for further info. No, unfortunately, there is no escape to reading.

BAIN has made installing/uninstalling/reinstalling/upgrading mods a breeze. No need to worry about overwriting some files after another mod is installed etc., just keep the BAIN install order and anneal - but you won't know these things until you read about it to the site (Tomlong's excellent work) I linked.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:23 pm

thanks. gonna read that

.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:43 pm

Some have found http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ to BAIN helpful - though admittedly a bit wordy.

Most of the useful parts of it should be on TES4POSItive.

Also Alt3rnity's http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35230 at Nexus

And as suggested above - a wiki would work, but would team FCOM want that? Or would they want complete write access. At least with a wiki they could dive in themselves and change it instead of ignoring a guide that others wrote because they couldn't.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:01 pm

@Richard The Geek, seems like much the same install order to me, except for Cobl. Not sure about that - Corepc has to take that one. Doubt FCOM versus body replacers matters, but Corepc would know that as well. I'll ask him about and try to synchronize them.

EDIT: Fixed.

Here's the link for MMM Install: http://forums.bethso...elease-3-relz//
Here is the list of install order:
Unofficial Patches, DLC Mod Patches
Fran's, OOO, WarCry, Bob's Armory, Armamentarium, Artifacts
MMM
Cobl, Cobl Races
Body Replacers
FCOM
Texture Replacers

Now here is the install order for FCOM from this site:
Unofficial Oblivion Patch
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch (if applicable)
DLC's + Patches (if applicable)
Francesco's Creatures-Items 4.5 (optional)
OOO version 1.33 full patched to OOO 1.34 beta5 (required)
Oblivion WarCry patched to 1.085b, patched to OblivionWarCry 1.09 (optional)
Bob's Armory 1.1 (optional)
Armamentarium and Artifacts (optional)
Mart's Monster Mod 3.7b3 (required), Diverse WaterLife Update 3.7b3pF (optional, if applicable)
Cobl (optional)
MMM 3.7b3 Cobl Update (optional, if applicable)
Cobl Races (optional)
FCOM 9.9 + supported add-ons (add-ons optional)
Body Replacement mods (Roberts, Exnem. EVE etc) (optional)
Texture replacers (optional)

BTW, I'm more than willing to make the guide in the FCOM opening post as clear and concise as possible, so I'm very open for suggestions regarding that. But I can't really go on "confusing" and "too many steps". I'd need more detailed suggestions.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:00 pm

BTW, I'm more than willing to make the guide in the FCOM opening post as clear and concise as possible, so I'm very open for suggestions regarding that.

OK Arkngt, that's great. I'll be thinking of something. :thumbsup:

Happy New Year! :celebration:

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:24 pm

OK Arkngt, that's great. I'll be thinking of something. :thumbsup:

Happy New Year! :celebration:

I've updated the http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1152645-relz-fcom-convergence-and-ufcom/ a bit. Combined download links/install orders that were in two sections to one (under QUICK START) and polished it up a bit.

Happy New Year! :celebrate:

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:58 am

@Richard The Geek, seems like much the same install order to me, except for Cobl. Not sure about that - Corepc has to take that one. Doubt FCOM versus body replacers matters, but Corepc would know that as well. I'll ask him about and try to synchronize them.

BTW, I'm more than willing to make the guide in the FCOM opening post as clear and concise as possible, so I'm very open for suggestions regarding that. But I can't really go on "confusing" and "too many steps". I'd need more detailed suggestions.

Arkngt: Thank you - and thank you for doing what you did.
I wrote out a walk through that could perhaps be posted here and locked - so that anyone can read it - knowing what to install - what order, and what options and the install method.
This would help a great deal I think in ending confusion.
That's up to you- anything I can do to help I am willing to do.

Richard

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:44 am

Edit: wrong thread