fixed

Obviously you didn't, since you said I claimed all Armor skills had been removed. Lie better.



Circumstantial evidence my good friend. Based on the direction and design philosophy of Skyrim. I never said it was a strong evidence, but it is evidence regardless of what you think.

Crafting I don't care that much about about tbh, ores, weapons, armours all gizmos to me.
Speechcraft, mercantile getting folded into one.. I may have jumped the ballista here in my post I should wait and see what's in the game.
Just that to me none direct combat skills means more combat less roleplay.. but I may be wrong on that I agree however, it's just my speculation.

the only thing they removed is acrobatics, athletics, and hand2hand so far, while adding perk trees and fleshing out all existing trees. Doesn't seem to effect roleplaying at all.

Perk trees...... more damage, less damage taken, larger AoE, new weapon attacks, new weapon styles, bonus critical attacks.
These don't mean roleplaying.. they mean combat mechanics, a fps can have "perks" does not make it a rpg.

This however is getting off topic and is a potato potato subject I've been in before.

What makes an RPG to you at least. There is no clear genre definition of RPG, not even through it's name, since you even Play a Role in Duke Nukem 3D (The role of Duke).

And I think the fact that they are implementing a completely revamped, dynamic economy system is much stronger evidence that mercantile will still be a skill, but we'll see. And as far as armor, one skill with specialization perks seems to match what we've seen of the design philosophy better than no armor skill at all. Might be evidence for you, but I see just as much suggesting otherwise. :foodndrink:


And mysticism, but I agree, as long as all the spells are there, we can still jump, we can still punch, and we can increase speed or sprinting distance with stamina, I don't really think the roleplaying is lost.

Which is exactly what I suggested... Again, showing you didn't actually read anything.



All indicators suggest Skyrim will be the best entry since Daggerfall in terms of Roleplaying the character. There may be no associated skills, but the sheer breadth of what has been confirmed as "Doable" shadows both Oblivion and Morrowind combined.

The only skill so far I think was stupid to remove, was Acrobatics. It yields gameplay, and is a definitive characteristic of an entire playstyle. Hand to Hand not so much, martial arts is a load of crap anyway as a means of self-defense or attack, and is mostly just parlor tricks anyway.

Why I said a potato potato subject I've been down before :rofl: .
Though Duke Nukem is not a RPG anymore than CoD to me.. tomato tomato lets please call this whole thing off.

As I posted above I made a hasty judgement call ( like a few gamers on these forums ), based on my ill informed information and personal bias to current trends in gaming.
That until I play the game I should not say what it will play like, as I and deathcoffee both have said.

It's confirmed that Hand to hand is out? If so I'm a sad panda :sadvaultboy:

I've read all the info threads and I haven't seen anything that explicitly says H2H has been removed. Am I missing it? I know it isn't listed under the dual wield combinations, but that list didn't say it was an exhaustive list.

Edit:Nevermind I see it. I am just blind.

I think hand to hand is just gonna be a default "no weapon" mod for our character so u can punch but its only good for bar fights and beating civilians if you are planing on not killing them.

Well, I was just curious is all. RPG is like the worst defined genre in the industry, I like to see different people's opinions on what actually makes it.

For me, it'll always be a combination of both Horizontal and Vertical character progression. While games like CoD and even Doom have Horizontal (Better weapons or equipment), only the real "RPGs" have the vertical character progression, where the same character with the same tools can be vastly different.

The new skill is: COMPASSION FOR ENEMIES!

That's not at all what you suggested :rolleyes:

{Warrior}
One-Handed Weaponry

Two-Handed Weaponry

Blocking

Resilience

Smithing

Armor (all types combined)

{Mage}
Destruction

Alteration

Enchanting

Restoration

Conjuration

Illusion

{Thief}
Alchemy

Archery

Speechcraft/trading

Sneak

Security

Assassination

meh I don't know maybe that

Okay, you see where you italicized? Look seven words after that. I don't understand how you can miss it so many times, when you're quoting the proof itself.

Your misinterpreting my notion that the labeled skills of "Heavy" and "Light" armor are gone, into saying there is nothing.

I for one hope Speechcraft and Mercantile are folded together.

Makes the most sense imo.

ahh OK sorry I thought you were just saying "I'm right"... I've been in fights here with posters like that ( not that you are.)
Which is why I give in and joke more than actually write anything serious.

My definition is.... Vertical in combat / leveling system... but vastly based on character choices, consequences and actions, and npc's reactions, choices, dialogue and leveling system / combat.
For example Arcanum, FO and Torment are imo rpg's in the true sense.
DA:O and previous TeS games can also fall into this at their best and with the freedoms they offer in TeS, and system in DA:O.

I hope this suffices.. I know it's basic and bare bones but if I go any deeper I'll really be in danger of off topic, but am willing to carry on in PM if you like.

I know what you said, and you prefaced it with "if anything," which is why it seemed to imply no armor skill at all, with one skill being a less likely alternative. But you've ignored my posts about mercantile just as much as I've ignored your line about defense/resiliance.

Honestly, this argument is hilarious and I just hope you're getting as many laughs out of it as I am :thumbsup:

I dont know if anyones said this, but do you think its possible there are no heavy armor or light armor skills and its just "Armor" and THEN made "Dual Wielding" a new skill? I am of course refering to the list of skills that the OP came up with..

The OP list doesn't work, because we know there is 6 skills per archetype. His list have 5 skills for the Warrior and 7 for the Thief and none of the Thief skill make sense in the Warrior archetype. We know all the Mage skills from previews.

Warrior
One-Handed
Two-Handed
Shield
Heavy Armour
Smithing
? (missing skill)

Mage
Enchanting
Conjuration
Destruction
Alteration
Restoration
Illusion

Thief (who is (are) the imposter(s)?)
Alchemy
Archery
Sneak
Security
Light Armour
Speechcraft
Mercantile

Merge Speechcraft and Mercantile and the Thief is fixed, but we still have one missing Warrior skill...

Just give us the skills at E3, Beth.

This missing skill could be "Dual Wielding" (i dont think if they confirmed it being a seperate skill or not)

we are missing 3