If you look over at the left edge of the menu screenshot there's a skill that ends in "...aft." If mercantile and speechcraft have been merged, has the skill retained the speechcraft name? And yeah, stealth shouldn't have 7 skills, there's one too many.

If you really think about it, the new economy stuff might actually be sophisticated enough to stand on its own without an associated skill at all, and speechcraft could easily be stretched to cover haggling/bargaining as well. Since the role of supply and demand is now larger, it means the role of skill-based price adjustment may very well be smaller.

if they removed hand-to-hand as a skill, though again, that doesnt mean fist fighting is out, just the skill... what the HELL makes you think they would make "shield" its own skill?!

that makes NO sense at all... :facepalm:

im not even gonna bother commenting on several of the other mistakes ya made...

He/she probably meant block and shield doesn't necessarily mean an actual shield either to shield yourself is to block. Yeah someone already corrected me in this thread so I thought I'd pass it on

I've been thinking and maybe speechcraft isn't categorised as a stealth skill as I personally see it more so as knights skill the kind of skill a good doing knight warrior should have instead of a thieving villain.

If this happened then there would be six skills in each archetype.

That's just what I thought anyway

Armour doesn't deserve wo freaking skills. At most one skill, better off shifting it and block into a single "defense" skill.

1. They moved Alchemy to Thief and added Enchanting to Mage because they wanted each archetype to have their own crafting skill (confirmed in a preview). They could have given both Alchemy and Enchanting to the Mage if they didn't care about the 6/6/6 split (beside I think the number of skills per archetype was confirmed somewhere and it match with the menu screen we have seen).

2. Without Archery (Marksman), the Thief have 0 combat skills. No point in moving Alchemy to Thief if they didn't want each archetype to be independent build. Independence of archetype mean they all have attack and defence skill as well. Mage have Destruction and Alteration, Warrior have a bunch of combat skill and heavy armor/shield. This mean that the Thief need Marksman and a defence skill.


But I totally agree that people are merging way to many skills.

Redundancy is a good thing. Go look it up in a dictionary.
There is a reason people have two kidneys. What if a hypothetical human designer had said: 'No, two kidneys, two eyes, a bivalve heart, two lungs.. all that is redundant. One of each and a simpler heart will do.'

I would like it to be an Armour skill with perks for light medium heavy armours, and a Unarmed skill that has perks for jumping running punching and cloths/no armour.

Medium armor skill just made it so that two third of the armors you found in the game were junk barely worth selling to the NPC. In Morrowind, the different armor types were barely different from each other except for availability. The funniest was that medium armor was both heavier AND protected less than light armor.

I want to see different armor types give us different gameplay options, not just looks and a little protection difference.

I HOPE that light/heavy armour have been combined into one skill with perks for each subset and the same with speechcraft/mercantile and we have two new skills.

Because skills tend to get used up, and they need to share the load?
What?


My problem with medium armor is just the definition of medium armor is not clear.
In D&D it sort of makes sense, as leather and padded (sometimes chain) is considered light, ringmail, scalemail is considered medium, plate and full-plate is considered heavy.
Now in TES it works differently mainly differentiating it with the material they're made of. Problem is if Orcish is medium why is Ebony heavy? If chitin is light, why is dreugh medium? If bonemold is medium, why is glass light?
The borders between the two are slim at best.

Somethings not right. Warriors need to have 6 skills. We know Alchemy is a rogues skill which leaves them with 7 skills on your list. Could mercantile be rolled into speechcraft, and unarmed be the sixth warrior skill?

I've heard others say the same.

My opinion of the merging of skills, is simple.

A skill should have something realy good to give you in return for using it and leveling up.

Lets say the all powerfull Magic skills like Restoration, I Heal, I improve stats, and remove conditions.
Compare it with lets say merchantile, y buy and sell stuff to gain more money.
One keeps me alive, the other i only use once i go back to town to sell some stuff. also if i dont need money because im freaking level 20 and most mobs have evony weapons that sell for tons of chash do i realy need to gain more money.

With a Gameplay point of view(not Roleplaying) is merchantile Exiting? it Gives me Enogh Rewards to levelup and invest my Perc points in them?

lets say Speechcraft in OB, it just wasted less time in the minigame, that was it, if i compare it with Ilucion magic that let me do it all. faster and more effiently. Did it realy had something to aport that was worth it.
Each old new skill, must be exiting with people being torn apart for not knowing what to focus on.
So if you merge skills is to get more in return for the investment you do for that skill.

For example I think most of the Rogue Archetipe in OB, was the Weakest and most worthless.
In Gamplay terms not Roleplaying.

So, lets say you merge a buch of skills, like Security and Sneak. and i call it Shadow arts. with pers like skeleton key, able to trow a smoke bomb and cool stuff.
Its more likly that i tring in this skill.
Like Merchantile and Speachcraft, lets say the are merged, because tx to your good speaching skills you are able to reduce the prices of an item, and you are able to convince people to do stuff, etc.
With percs of buying stuff, convince people that you dindt rob them blind.
and get away with murder.

You get the idea

My two cents:

One Handed
Two Handed
Marksman ?
Heavy Armour
Blocking/Shield
Armourer/ Smithing

Destruction
Conjuration
Alteration
Illusion
Restoration
Enchanting

Alchemy
Sneak
Security
Speechcraft
Mercantile
Light Armour

Second version:

One Handed
Two Handed
Shield
Heavy Armour
Blocking/parry
Armourer/ Smithing

Destruction
Conjuration
Alteration
Illusion
Restoration
Enchanting

Alchemy
Sneak
Security
Speechcraft+Mercantile
Light Armour
Marksman

So se i think it will go by something like this.

-Warrior
One Handed
Two Handed
Command-with stuff like intimidate, convince people, perks for your companions and stuff like that.
Armour-all of them
Defending
Armourer

-Mage
Destruction
Conjuration
Alteration
Illusion
Restoration
Enchanting

-Rogue
Alchemy- powerfull Venoms and potions, with some luck bombs and traps.
"Shadow Arts"-Sneaking+Security+Life detect in minimap.
Assassation-Daggers
Archery
Speechcraft- Speach+Mercantile, you can raly, convince and a lot of other stuff with this
Deadly Reflexes-Perries and critical hits, better jumps and maybe rolls.

Here's my theory:

Missing Warrior Skills
Heavy Armor
Tactics ----- Bashing locks, intimidation, possibilities are nice here

Full Thief Skillset
Marksman
Sneak
Alchemy
Speechcraft
Security
Light Armor

Maybe some kind of critical strike for the thief? But I dunno, it seems like "assassination" could just be rolled into Sneak.

This is a tricky puzzle...

Guess I'll take a crack at it.

Fighter
One-Handed
Two-Handed
Shield
Armor
Smithing
*Taunt

Mage
Enchanting
Conjuration
Destruction
Alteration
Restoration
Illusion

Stealth
Alchemy
Archery
Sneak
Security
Speechcraft
*Avoidance

First up, Heavy and Light Armor are condensed into Armor. Light and Heavy (possibly Medium) armor still exists in the game as part of an item's description and as perks in the Armor tree. Thus people can still choose to specialize in one armor type or the other with different bonuses and incentives to each (i.e. more defense in heavy vs. faster run/attack speed in light). True, stealth characters have traditionally worn Light armor, but if you're getting hit you aren't being very stealthy, now are you?

Taunt is added as the 6th fighter skill. It's an ability that causes targetted enemies to attack you and become reckless in their behavior. This effectively replaces Rage, which is removed as an Illusion spell. Higher levels of Taunt affect enemies that are further away, affect more enemies at once, and increase the duration of the effect. There would be some sort of indicator to show someone affected by it. In addition, Taunt can be used in certain conversation options after taking a perk, thus giving an interaction/dialogue skill to every archetype (taunt for fighter, charm for mage, speechcraft for stealth). The Taunt itself is bound to a button (similar to jump) and takes about as long as a power attack to use... and is fully voice acted. It is affected by Silence. The skill is increased when you successfully use it on an enemy. Other perks include the ability to use it against non-sentient targets (such as animals or undead) and use it as an area effect by holding the button down.

Avoidance is added as a stealth skill and is more or less their defensive combat ability. While holding down attack with an empty hand or un-knocked bow you will temporarily enter an "avoidance state." This is functionally similar to blocking, only instead of reducing the damage you avoid it entirely by knocking the weapon/opponent's arm aside - causing them to momentarily pause attacking ("stagger") as well. Using this costs stamina. Higher ranks of the skill cost less stamina and increase the duration of the "stagger." Perks include the ability to disarm an opponent, dodge spells, and catch arrows in mid-flight. Possibly a perk with a combined requirement in Sneak that would allow you to instantly kill an attacker with a brutal counterattack if wielding a one-handed weapon.