What I want to know from people in this thread is whether they think finishing move perks could really work in a rpg. I cant help thinking that an instant kill move completely defeats the purpose of an rpg, where all an enemy's stats and attributes are ignored in an instant. It seems to me that being able to pull off a sweet instant-kill stomach stab like in the trailer, even if you can't do it as soon as you commence a fight, completely disregards all the fundamental mechanisms of a rpg (stats, attributes etc). Shouldn't a rpg force you to overcome all these of an enemy rather than instantly bypassing them? Weaknesses and damage bonuses aren't the same. They grant you help in overcoming them, they don't disregard them. I haven't got a problem with becoming strong enough to deal out a one-hit kill sneak attack. This is basically the entire point of stealth. So perhaps that throat slit that's also in the trailer makes sense if your char is strong enough to kill your target in one hit anyway. But having this kind of advantage ALL THE TIME, being able to pull off these instant kill moves in regular combat, is troubling. It takes out the challenge of legitimately overcoming your opponents.

I think you may be misunderstanding what the phrase "Finishing Move" means.

I suppose it depends how one defines an RPG? Also, it never completely ignores stats as the PC's skills must at least be there for it to work. I think for stealth kills and such you would probably need a pretty high skill to sneak up behind someone and take them out in one stab (if that is how it is going to work), and in melee combat maybe you cannot perform the finishing move either unless your 'which-ever-skill-is-relevant' is higher than the NPC's defense against it, or they will have to take a beating before you are allowed to make the move so it is actually just a bit of Hollywood-flair to finish enemies off in a fancy way. :shrug:

I'd pick "get skill way high then insta-kill" (as long as there is challenge to it and you actually have to work for it) over the whack-away-till-they-run-out-of-hp approach any day.

It's just a motion captured animation to take the place of "random slash #3" on the last hit you need to kill an enemy. The game will already have determined whether or not you hit, and how much damage you did - that's how it's a "finishing blow"!

Emphasis on this. Really, I personally never even considered that any of the TES games as some sort of RPG. More like some kind of a confused hybrid of a game that is mostly informed by a good amounts of elements nicked from the FPS and RPG genres.

I agree. I dunno I kind of thought of it as a fancy way of ending combat. I never thought it meant walk up to any npc and 'insta-kill' them, but rather that after you beat them down to low health you could execute a 'finishing move'

Hence the 'finishing' portion of the phrase.

This.

The finishing moves in Skyrim will be on a per weapon, per enemy basis. They are designed to help you "finish" an enemy once they are close to death with a powerful "blow" that plays out as a unique move. Stealth special finishing moves still take your stats and your enemy's into account, but can "one-hit" an enemy because it fits the stealth logic. This system is designed to make combat more interesting, fun, dramatic, realistic, etc.

Just from what we see in the trailer, it should be immediately apparent that melee combat will be that much more visceral, powerful, and unique with each fight. Stealth has been drastically improved for both melee and bow. It has yet to be seen if there are "finishing moves" for magic (doubtful)....but it could well be something the devs put in somehow.

Does that clarify it better?

Finishing moves are exactly that...the move that you use to finish the fight! I highly doubt you'd be able to use them as soon as you see the person, unless of course you've snuck up behind them like in the trailer!!!

Well, yeah, although you really can RP just about any game,it's just a question of whether or not you have to completely ignore the back story provided - if there is one.

Based on what I have read, a finishing move is nothing but an animation, a consequence of you killing your opponent. It is not an actual move that causes the death of your opponent. Also, it is impossible to define RPG by mechanisms, so even if finishing moves were as you describe them, you would still have an RPG.

Doesn't say this anywhere else, so might well be bad reporting, but the OXM article seems to imply that finishing moves are taken as perks.If this is the case, then they have to be earned, by gaining a level and missing out on another ability, so that would fit fine in an rpg, they would be a part of your choices in character development.

you misunderstood how finishing moves work, theyre purely aesthetic. like they were in dragon age: origins



link?

Finishing moves will most likely work when you kill an enemy. once you get their health down to one more hit then you will be able to do a finishing move so it doesnt completely disregard what an rpg game is.

Can't link, only in magazine, the quote is "These might be damage boosts for certain weapons, kill moves and magical abilities or more specific non-combat abilities....."

That's my understanding of it, and in that case, it in no way affects the game's status as an RPG, because the mechanics behind it don't change, it's just that killing blows may get a special animation for finishing enemies off.

And even if that weren't the case, I'd still say that it wouldn't diminish the game's standing as an RPG so long as finishing moves would only be performed if certain variables are fulfilled, with your abilities and the enemy's having an impact on said variables, let's say you had a special attack that has a chance to kill an enemy in one hit, but it wouldn't just do that every time you use it, as that would be too easy. It could easily be done in a way where there is a chance to gain a one hit kill if the attack hits, and this chance is affected by certain skills or stats of your character as well as those of your enemy, that way, you get a game where you MAY be able to perform special moves that kill enemies in one hit and still don't defy RPG logic in the matter, after all, it is not repetitively hacking at your foes until they just drop dead that defines an RPG.

hmm, im assuming only some finishing moves will be from perks, but those will be instakill ones, like sneak attack that slits the opponents throat

I believe the "finishing moves" will only commence after you have weakened your enemy just before the point of death. Then you'll probably have the option to go ahead with the move or just hack your enemy one last time.

Grocely misunderstanding. Whether a finishing move is shown or not, is completely dictated by whether or not you're able to kill the opponent in the next hit. The damage is calculated but, instead of just falling down on the ground dead, the opponent and you goes into a "finishing move" animation and THEN he dies.

You basically need to have never heard of finishing moves before, if you're unsure of this. Finishing moves are pretty concrete and simple, from a design perspective. You basically "just" need the model animation, proper camera placement and the script to trigger/end it.

Concerning the instant kill in the inn/pub in the trailer: It was clearly a sneak attack and it looked like the character was using a dagger and in the combat GI update it said that daggers would get a 10x bonus when in sneak mode. Also, the npc wasn't some big warrior , I mean he looked like your average peasant. So even if there was no finishing moves, the pc in the trailer would have 1-hitted the guy anyway.

Yep yep!

Where do you derive the word "stats" in "Role Playing Game", I can see the words "playing" like play, and "game" like in a game, and then I see "role" like a role you take upon yourself, a role that is defined by the characteristics of the character and its actions, yes I know stats play a minor role in the RPG aspect of a game seeing how for example it would be bad if "Brutus Biggus" the giant managed to sneak better than a master thief because of player skill, so stats do help define a character. But finishing moves is something I think you can ignore, and in fact I think that if you were playing our friend Brutus Biggus, then you would also be able to ignore your mastery at sneaking for the sake of in game realism.

So back to the question of if finishing moves can work in an RPG ? Well yes. If poorly implemented they can come out wrong of course but if done right, for example if you earn your finishing moves through the mastery of your skills then yes finishing moves can turn out to be brilliant. But even if "Mini Maggie" the mage can do a backflip and a 180° spin in the air throwing needles into the neck of her enemy finishing off with a slash over the throat before even landing as a finishing move, then while I will find that to be unrealistic and bad, but I will be able to ignore it. Then I can just enjoy using the finishing move on "Slicing Sam" the assassin as it was a finishing move intended for him to use.

I call for self restraint for now unless it becomes an aspect of the game you cannot ignore, like if you must do a super mega finishing attack to do an essential quest or something of that sort.

Edit: If finishing moves are not optional to use I am going to cry tears of blood

im pretty sure they wont be, and i dont see a reason why they should be

if you dont use a sword you wont do a finishing move with it, theres your option

finishing moves wont be anything fancy (like what youve described, with backflipping and throwing knives), weve seen in the trailer one of them, no one needs special skills to pull of something like that

Well it better not be anything too fancy then, imagine if "Mini Maggie" the mage went and threw a few fireballs into her enemy, her mana is drained but luckly her enemy only has 1 health left and she has a silver dagger she has a skill of 3 in (yes, that low skill), then I don′t want to see "Mini Maggie" the mage grappling the thuggish bandit, reaching up and neatly slicing his throat like as if it is something she does on a daily basis. I want there be some limit to how fancy a finishing move one will execute then based on skill.

there probably will be a skill limit for some moves, so there will probably be a couple of flashy moves but most of them will be pretty basic i guess

the one weve seen in the trailer is grabbing the enemy and impaling them on your sword, thats pretty basic if you ask me