My question is a simple one, and one that I have missed, obviously. It seems like a very foolish thing to ask of the buffs in these parts, but I ask regardless.

Dagoth Ur, as he was in the Third Era, was, like his supposed kin, an 'Ash Vampire.' One of my questions is: Was Dagoth always of this peculiar Ash Vampire race? Was this race as it was during the Battle of Red Mountain (which I assume Dagoth's Ash Vampire kin fought in as well.)

My other question is... what are Ash Vampires? Are they a race of themselves? Were they one chimer, but instead of being turned into dunmer, they were cursed with another form for their especial treachery? I can't remember any text in Morrowind, or any other of the pool of literature on Tamriel I have read.

Insight would be appreciated.

EDIT: I apologize for the somewhat butchered sentence structures in the above paragraphs.

When he was still Voryn Dagoth, head of House Dagoth, he was a chimer. The Ash Vampires were chimers too, his closest kind and trusted entourage. They were turned in what they're now after the battle of Red Moutain. He gave them lesser, but similar to what he got, power, but it's unclear as exactly when it happened.

From the accounts of the Tribunal's annual pilgirmage to the Red Mountain to refresh their power and give him a good trashing, until he ambushed them with said Ash Vampire, their change probably occured sometime in between.

A sounds guess would that after the fisrt time the Tribunal spanked him he decided he needed some help and gather the bests of the handfull of House Dagoth loyalist who managed to silp through the post Red Moutain cleansing to make them the Ash Vampires. And probably waited until he had overhelming enough a force at his disposition to trap the Tribunal.

Well, my remembrance of Morrowind's lore details is a bit rusty, but the Ash Vampires, along with every other creature of House Dagoth, are products of Corprus disease. The Ash Vampires, being Dagoth Ur's kin, are just masters among the Sixth House at controlling how the disease/blessing contorts and empowers them. Whereas the poor victim who gets infected and becomes a corprus stalker or lame corprus lacks this ability, can't control the disease/blessing, and ends up a shambling monster. So the Ash Vampires, along with Dagoth Ur, were once Chimer, members of the Sixth House before the events at Red Mountain Whether they actually underwent Azura's cursed transformation, I don't know, but they were definitely normal once. The only thing I'm having difficulty recalling is exactly how corprus exists in the first place. I'm sure Dagoth Ur is the source of it, and he's sending the blight out into Vvardenfell. And I'm assuming he's getting the power to spread it via the Heart of Lorkhan?

I appreciate your helping me understand this matter! Regardless of which of the differing answers is the 'canonically true' one, a simple understanding of the continuity of this subject is a good enough resolution for me.

House Dagoth was one of the Great Houses of the Chimer people - the Sixth House. All its nobles and top ranking elite members were Chimer, the predecessors to the Dunmer.

After the Battle of Red Mountain, and the disappearance of the Dwarves, Voryn Dagoth dueled with Indoril Nerevar in the Heart Chamber because Dagoth had supposedly gone mad while guarding Kagranac's Tools. What really happened is he was seduced by the power of Lorkhan and had tapped into the Heart, making himself a God. When Nerevar "slew" him, he was really playing possum, retreating deeper into the chamber to hide for centuries. The Tribunal then slew Nerevar and became Gods too, not knowing that Dagoth Ur had become a god. Then of course Azura cursed all Chimer to become Dunmer for the sins of the Tribunal, betraying her champion Nerevar. But the Tribunal themselves remained Chimer gods, with the ability to choose their own appearance.

Dagoth Ur, who was still alive, chose to spread his Divinity through Corprus. His first servants were his seven slain brothers, who became Ash Vampires. Thus they were Chimer, his brothers, before becoming what they were at the time of their deaths. Imagine a being identical to a Dark Elf, with blue eyes instead of red and golden skin instead of purple. Like a shorter version of an Altmer. That's what the Ash Vampires were before becoming Ash Vampires.

All weaker servants of the House came from different backgrounds..most of the Sleepers and Dreamers are Dunmer however, and were recruited hundreds of years after Dagoth Ur and his brothers became divine.

Also to note the guys who turn into the sleepers and ash minions are also part of 6th house by ancestry, as a lot of 6th house members after the fall of the 6th house were assimilated into the other houses. And these guys seem to go from Ash Slave (retain some humanity) to Ash Zombie (they lose their humanity, human powers, and begin to lose their face) to Ash Ghouls (who are now starting to grow tentacle faces and are becoming more powerful than the slave form) to Ascended Sleeper (the most powerful and dangerous of the form. They seem to retain their midsection, as their arms are still pretty much the same, only the head really goes through a transformation).

Anyone not from/descended of 6th house turns into corpus beasts.

The Tribunal didn't slay Nerevar. He died by woudns inflicted by Dagoth, they betrayed him by breaking their promise to destroy the tools.

And, as stated in the first post, I was aware that the Chimer were the dunmers' predecessors, I simply was unsure if Dagoth and his kin were 'Ash Vampires' before the betrayal of Nerevar.

Nerevar was (mortally) wounded in the battle with Dumac & Co. I don't believe there's any account saying Nerevar died by wounds inflicted by Dagoth Ur? The accounts just say the Tribunal drove Dagoth Ur off and Nerevar died soon after he made the Tribunal swear an oath.

Vehk the mortal slew Nerevar, Vehk the god did not.

What makes you believe that only descendants of the 6th House can become ash monsters? Not that it matters because by now almost every dunmer has a 6th house ancestor.

Because those who have ties to Dagoth Ur and 6th house are connected by a hive mind, with his ascended sleepers, sometimes powerful ghouls, and ash vampires being his lesser overminds, the zombies, dreamers, sleepers, slaves being pretty much controlled, and the corprus victims are completely mindless. And no, not almost every dunmer would be of 6th house. Hell, there were only ~3 sleepers per town, and not too many dreamers in 6th house bases.

:rofl:

No one could think of a good joke for this? Then the lore forum is truly dead.

http://www.themadmusicarchive.com/song_details.aspx?SongID=7131

Read the Hidden Sermon and the Trial of Vivec.

Vivec slew Nerevar himself, probably with poison or some other roguely tactic.

According to 'Kagrenac's Tools' and 'Saint Nerevar,' Nerevar was mortally wounded by Dagoth Ur during their fight in the heart chamber.

Well, those are Temple sources, even though the former has been suppressed.

If you were part of the Tribunal Temple, what would you rather believe, Nerevar was killed by Dagoth Ur, and the 3 became gods, or the three killed Nerevar, pushed aside Dagoth Ur, and became gods?

I'd never before knew that the truth hadn't actually been solidified. I always assumed the 'the Tribunal killed Nerevar' hypothesis was simply a view adopted by the Ashlander tribes to further demonize the Tribunal. Now you've got me stuck thinking.

Well, maybe that's an explanation for how the 6th Houses really attracts dreamers rather than a mere typo on my part (come live naked in a cave, eat mutated flesh and turn into a monster... not exactly the most appealing recruiting pitch)

Don't worry, absolutely nothing else about that war is solidified.

Don't forget the nord point of view of that war too, if the "Five Songs of Wulfheart" are somewhat true

Besides being bat[censored] insane and incredibly confusing.

Which is the reason why I believe that having 6th house ancestors is not why some became ash monsters and some corprus monsters.

Even if that is true, why would Vivec lie to the Nerevarine about it?

Read carefully. It rings with the chimes of truth.